[RichardBronosky]

Unfortunately I do not have to original thermostat, so I cannot document the wiring configuration it had. But, I have checked my neighbors and noted it below.

What I have:
Honeywell RTH7500 (from HomeDepot)
Trane TUE060A936K2 Natural Gas furnace
... with "Heat Pump Kit Model: TAYPLUS013A"

I have traced all 3 of the cables into the HP Kit. The kit has a few relays and terminals with the following labels: Y2, X2, Y1, G1, W1, X3, Y3, W3, G3, B
With 3 cables, there are 3 wires of each color. The wire connections are as follows:
Black
thermostat - X3
compressor - X2
furnace - Taped Off
Blue
thermostat - B
compressor - B
furnace - B
Green
thermostat - G3
compressor - W3
furnace - G1
Yellow
thermostat - Y3
compressor - Y2
furnace - Y1
Orange
thermostat - Joined
compressor - Joined
furnace - Taped Off
Red
thermostat - Joined
compressor - Joined
furnace - Joined
Brown
thermostat - Joined
compressor - Joined
furnace - Taped Off
White
thermostat - Joined
compressor - Joined
furnace - W1

I have traced all of the wires into the furnace. The furnace has terminals with the following labels: Y, W, R, G, C
The wire connections are as follows:
Black - Taped Off
Blue - C
Green - G
Yellow - Y
Orange - Taped Off
Red - R
Brown - Taped Off
White - W

I opened the panel on the compressor and nothing was labeled. I don't think I'm supposed to go in there. I'll just trust that everything there is in order.

I had a RiteTemp 8085c on it for 3 years and every season I had to call RiteTemp and complain that my heat or AC didn't work and they tell me to move a few wires and tell me it should work from now on. This winter when I call they tell me everything is okay. But, it is 25 degrees outside and 58 degrees in my home.

I have now wired the Honeywell as follows:
Black - E
Blue - C
Green - G
Yellow - Y
Orange - O/B
Red - R (jumpered to RC)
Brown - Taped Off
White - Aux

Doing this causes the compressor to run and "not warm" air to come out of the vents. I've also tried swapping the Black and White wires, with no luck.

I'd like to know how to wire this thing correctly, but more importantly I'd like to know wires I can twist together to get the gas heat to come on ASAP.

A few years ago I did some research and decided that I ought to be able to connect a few wires at the furnace and get the heat to come on. I can't remember which they were though. I think it was W+R+G, can anyone confirm this?

I'd rather be able to do it at the thermostat unit though, that way my wire doesn't have to go in the basement to turn the heat off when it gets too warm.

I know this post just took a reckless turn, but I've got 2 babies in this home and am feeling pretty desperate.

[RichardBronosky]

I have checked my neighbors and noted it below.

Oops, forgot to add this. My neighbor's thermostat, which I think is the same as my original, is a Trane Baystat with:
Black - X2
Blue - B
Green - G
Yellow - Y
Orange - O
Red - R
Brown - T (I guess that makes it "tan" not brown)
White - W

[hvac1000]

I know this post just took a reckless turn, but I've got 2 babies in this home and am feeling pretty desperate. You should have thought of this before you took it all apart. I hope you marked your wires from where they came from on the old thermostat.

Unfortunately I do not have to original thermostat What happened to it?

Do this
To get your heat on a emergency basis jump the RH or R terminal to the W on the terminal strip on the furnace. You will not have thermostat control but you will have heat. This will get you by until you can figure it all out. Its late. Good night

[RichardBronosky]

I hope you marked your wires from where they came from on the old thermostat.

I didn't mark the wires. That's a huge part of my frustration. That's why I was so careful to trace the wires today and check they wiring of my neighbor's unit. (Also, I didn't have any babies 4 years ago when I "took it all apart.")

What happened to it?

I bought this house (I originally said 3 but it was) 4 years ago (when everyone had jobs and money to spend on their homes). The first thing I did was pay someone to take out a wall. This wall happened to be the primary load bearing, wet and electrical wall, and the location of our thermostat. The thermostat got damaged in the demolition and I told the contractor not to worry about it, I was going to get a programmable. The past 4 thermostats I had wired were always obvious "each wire goes to the first letter of its color" systems. I had never dealt with a Trane heat pump and didn't know how foolish I was.

Do this
To get your heat on a emergency basis jump the RH or R terminal to the W on the terminal strip on the furnace. You will not have thermostat control but you will have heat. This will get you by until you can figure it all out. its late. Good night

I came downstairs this AM to try jumping R with W and it was 70 degrees, which was the hold I set last night. (We have a separate unit for the upstairs that doesn't have a heat pump and has never been altered, so it stays warm where we sleep.)

Last night when it was 55 degrees and I wired up this new thermostat, I went to see if the gas was burning and it was not. An hour later I swapped the black and white wires, and checked again. No gas burning. I then cycled the thermostat to "Emer Heat" and checked again. Still no fire so I went to bed and posted here. It seems that my system (don't know if it is the thermostat, or "Heat Pump Kit") doesn't call for Aux heat when it needs to. I don't think it is triggered by the temperature differential in the request vs. present. It also doesn't seem to "know" not to run the heat pump when it is 25 degrees outside.

My neighbor showed me how theirs works. If they tip it 2 degrees you hear the fan come on, and presumably the heat. Tip it 4 degrees and the blue Aux light comes on. They tell me that is the gas heat. I looked in their basement and it doesn't look like they have the TAYPLUS heat pump kit.

I don't know what my expectations should be at this point.

What should trigger the gas?
(temperature differential? Temperature outside? Timeout trying the heat pump?)

At what outside temperature should the heat pump not be used? Does my unit know that?

[hvac1000]

I don't know what my expectations should be at this point.

I would have to get a owners manual for your item to figure it all out myself so if you have a owners manual from Honeywell for the thermostat model number you posted above so read it if not see this link.

Under 0170 in the setup it says

7 - Multistage Heat Pumps -- heat pump with auxiliary

Or back-up heat. But it does not say dual fuel for a gas furnace with heat pump. This could be OK but usually if it is for dual fuel it is stated on the selection number.

http://customer.honeywell.com/techli...0s/69-1730.pdf

You have to do the set up starting on page 25.
NOTE at this point please post the exact model number off the thermostat since the one you posted above is not listed to work as a dual fuel unit. It could be made to work possibly but this needs to be checked into. POST the EXACT model off the thermostat itself not the box or instructions.

[RichardBronosky]

Inside the thermostat it has RTH7500D1007, I presume that to be the exact model number.

The printed manuals that came with the unit are:
http://customer.honeywell.com/Honeyw...=69-2221ES.pdf
And
http://customer.honeywell.com/Honeyw...=69-2222ES.pdf
The former of which has the details about the "Installer Setup" or "System Setup"

The System Setup registers that I have set are:
0120 20
0130 10
0140 1
0150 3
0170 7
0190 0
0270 5
0300 0
0320 0
0330 2
0500 2
0530 1
0640 12

[hvac1000]

0170?? Do you or do you not have a heat pump. If you have a heat pump you have the wrong setting picked I believe.

[KISS]

This one is going to be rough. Right now, I'm a little low on the spare time I can spend. For readers, this is a DUAL-FUEL system. What's said relates to just that type system.

You have a dual-fuel system and a Trane. Both are difficult. You have a dual fuel kit which could make things easier or more difficult.

Take a look at the Honeywell Vision Pro 800 series stats that support dual fuel on Furnace Filters, Air Conditioner Filters, Air Quality - iaqsource. The documantationis arrange well there.

In a dual-fuel set up the HP and the gas furnace cannot operate at the same time, hence the dual fuel kit. It can also be handled in the thermostat and its best handled there in my opinion. In order for the thermostat to handle it though, it must know the outdoor temperature.

If things work as planned:
1. The HP or the gas furnace works (not both) Both is possible with resistance heating and non-dual fuel systems.
2. The balance point is the point where the heat pump just equals the heat loss of the house. This is based on outdoor temperature (adjustible either in the stat or the dual fuel kit). In a dual fuel system this should be the switching point. Determined my a manual J calculation. See HVAC Software, HVAC-Calc for Heat Loss, Heat Load Calculations.

At some point the HP should not operate at all. This is normally near freezing. With the either-or setup and a dual fuel kit, this point should be moot since the switch should occur earlier.

Em/aux heat should turn on just the gas furnace. It's used when the HP is broken and it forces the system to use gas heat or you want to use gas to heat.

We can first look at staging:

The thermostat will have an internal differential which it uses to activate the second stage, in your case gas heat.

The thermosat wiill also use temperature rise/cycle rate and running time to activate the second stage.

It should always activate the second stage below the balance point. A particular outdoor temperature.

It will take effort to figure this out. It could be more complicated if the heatpump has more than one stage.

Usually with a dual fuel kit, it is my understanding that a regular staging stat will work.

Dual fuel stats require an outdoor sensor run to the stat and can offer other comfort improvements.

It's going to be tough. See if you can locate a manual for the dual fuel kit. The wiring diagram is most useful for the heat pump. That should be on the door.

[RichardBronosky]

Page 16 of the first manual I linked to has 0170 in it and 7 is the setting for heat pump. I'm attached a snapshot of the page.

[KISS]

Some info on TAYPLUS: http://www.ewccontrols.com/acrobat/090512a0031.pdf 103A (here) vs 013A (you) (typo?) It's a dual-fuel zoning applicatiion

[KISS]

More info on Tayplus:

Dual Fuel TAYPLUS103A question - HVAC-Talk: Heating, Air & Refrigeration Discussion

re: Tayplus 103a

HVAC Mechanic.com

Tayplus, page 8:

http://customer.honeywell.com/techli...0s/68-0223.pdf

DUel fuel training presentation:
http://www.hvac.amickracing.com/Heat...esentation.ppt

Hopefully the info will be useful. I hope it's not a dual stage gas furnace combined with a dual stage heatpump with dual fuel? That would be enough to drive anyone crazy.

In any event, it appears the TAYPLUS prevents the HP and Gas furnace from operating simultaneously.

Hopefully, you can now see the LARGE amount of interaction that can occur.

Not sure I'm much help right now without the proper amount of information. I've located some info, but haven't studied it.

While it's possible to replace the tstat with a dual fuel thermostat and an external sensor and remove the TAYPLUS, I'm not sure it's the right thing to do unless it's bad.

My primary intent was to provide info.

This will give you an idea that wiring is not entirely universal.

Trane Heat Pump Thermostat Wiring Question.

[RichardBronosky]

Some info on TAYPLUS: http://www.ewccontrols.com/acrobat/090512a0031.pdf 103A (here) vs 013A (you) (typo?) It's a dual-fuel zoning applicatiion

Yes, mine is TAYPLUS103A. Carp! Sorry.

[KISS]

Lacking information, I think page 8 in this reference is probably the most important: http://customer.honeywell.com/techli...0s/68-0223.pdf

On the trane 1800 block there is a B terminal which is not to be confused with O/B. It's probably common. Note O is used.

The X2 terminal is PROBABLY is second stage of heating. One of the W's.

The zone control in this picture can be considered a thermostat.

It seems to be set up as 3 stage heating.

But things blur.
You could have two state heat pump, two stage gas furnace and aux/emg heat.

or it could be dual fuel: single stage heat pump with aux heat (gas furnace)

What would be useful, I think is to determine the connections at the thermostat using page 8 as a guide.

You need to know what the thermostat is seeing.

e.g.

Red, wire bundle 1,
... G at air handler, G at condensor;
... Probably thermostat G

Consider the TAYPLUS and the consenser two different things.
All we care about, is the wires at the thermostat and what we think they are

If wires are just connected together just list the final destination.

If they are connected to two things, lust list them not the colors getting there,

You can list in an Exel spreadsheet to show more information.

Now we acre about one thing. The wires at the tstat and what they are connected to. Air handler/furnace, tayplus, condenser.

[KISS]

As you can tell: Trane isn't helpful online: Manuals - Air Conditioner, Heat Pump, Furnace, HVAC Manual : Trane Residential

[KISS]

I'm having trouble following your stuff, here is another example:

White
thermostat - Joined
compressor - Joined
furnace - W1



I have traced all of the wires into the furnace. The furnace has terminals with the following labels: Y, W, R, G, C

The red stuff doesn't make sense. There is no W in your entire list. You did the same with Y1. Sometimes Y and Y1 are different.

There was probably a transposition on the model number of the TAYPLUS gizmo too.

Confused.

Just trace the thermostat wires as if nothing is connected to a terminal.
The wire connections are as follows:

[RichardBronosky]

I don't know if I have a 2 stage furnace or 2 stage heat pump. I'd guess that I don't since this is builder grade work. I'd love to know how to find out for sure. I'm attaching some images that I took before my battery ran dead. I'll grab a few more later.

[RichardBronosky]

The last schematic picture suffered greatly from being resized to fit this site's requirements. I posted the high resolution image on flickr.

[RichardBronosky]

I'm having trouble following your stuff, here is another example:

You are right there are no numbers on the furnace connectors. I made a copy-paste mistake. It should have be W, and Y for the furnace connections. I photographed them above.

Again I really appreciate the attention I'm getting, and I'm very sorry for the mistakes I made which are causing you trouble.

[KISS]

How about this for a temporary fix (gas heat only) until we can get things sorted out.

Concentrate on the furnace connector for now.

R should connect to Rh and Rc of the thermostat. This should require no wiring changes. The standard color is RED.

C is an optional connection to common of the thermostat. There is no standard color. Optional, if batteries are used. No wires should have to be disconnected.

Disconnect the yellow wire (Y) and cap. Only purpose is to select a cooling fan speed which is high speed.

Disconnect the G wire if not going to the thermostat G terminal. Connect (G) [Fan] Green to G of the thermostat (G). Mark how they were connected so you can put things back.

Disconnect the W wire if not going to the thermostat W terminal. Connect (W) [Heat] Green to W of the thermostat (W). Mark how they were connected so you can out things back.

Kill the heat pump breaker or kill it at the disconnect outside so the compressor can't come on.

Configure the stat to 1 stage conventional.

You should have gas heat at least temporarily. Test.

If you have to clip the disconnected wire and leave a bit of insulation and jumper to the appropriate wire near the furnace barrier strip. Be sure you can put things back.

[RichardBronosky]

How about this for a temporary fix (gas heat only) until we can get things sorted out.

I don't know if you missed this part of my story, but I am able to heat my home now with the thermostat wiring I gave in my first post. The trick to getting it to use the gas furnace and not the heat pump is to set the thermostat to Emergency Heat. That has worked for me today.

I don't think I want to going doing temporary rewiring in the state I have described.

What I'm now trying to figure out is:
1. Why is my heat pump trying to heat my house (if I don't have emergency heat enabled) when it is 25º outside?
2. Is my TAYPLUS unit supposed to stop it from doing that?
3a. I'm under that understanding that it is never okay to run the heat pump and the gas furnace at the same time. Is this true?
3b. What can I do to fix it? Is this something that the thermostat should correct, aor the TAYPLUS unit?
(now that KeepItSimpleStupid raises the questions)
4. Do I have a multistage furnace?
5. Do I have a multistage heatpump?

Seriously though, thank you for all of your help here. I am still trying to study up on the info for the TAYPLUS unit and what it is supposed to accomplish. It's still not clear to me.