[YSLGuru]

Background/Details:

Building new home in North Texas. Closing at end of August. Builder and I are in dispute over what hardware to install for the AC. House is gas heated so this is about the AC side only.

The AC hardware that comes with the house is made by Amana (under license to Goodman so the AC Units are not made by the same people who make the traditional Kitchen applicanes). The house as planned will include 2 Amana AC Units rated at 14 SEER with a 3.5 ton system for the 1st flr and a 3.0 ton system for the 2nd flr.

My Questions are:

1) How can I find out how big an AC unit (in tons) the house truly needs? I looked on the internet for some kind of formula but came up empty handed. I'm being told by an oustide Heat/Air company that the 6.5 tons currently planned for the house is too low by .5 to 1.0 tons and the builder is insisting it's the right amount.

2) Is it worth $4K to switch from instaling 2 Amana brand 14 SEER AC units to 2 Trane brand XR13 units (supposedly 14 seer rated) which are of the same size (in tons) as the Amana Units, that builder is requiring from us to make this kind of change to the Air System?

I feel like I'm being punished (in the form of $4k out of pocket) for requesting the TRANE brand in stead of the Amana. The TRANE has a warranty twice the duration of the Amanna and TRANE has a better track record over time. I realize the builder will pay more for the TRANE units becaseu A) he buys the Amanas in bulk because that's all he uses and so he gets them at a better price and B) an equivalent TRANE model is most likley going to cost more then an Amana because you get what you pay for.

I however am not certain that it's roughly a $2K difference per unit and therfore that the $4K out of pocket cost to me may include some extra. They have already reduced that price once from $4500 to $4000 but based on what I've read about on the net and the quotes from outher Heat & Air companies on what itw oudl cost me to buy these same units, I'm just not believeing the extra cost I'm being asked for.

Here are some specs on the house and the systems so as to help better address my questions.

House Sqft: 3400
Stories: 2
Window Count: 25 (approx.)
Region: North Texas/Dallas Area
Other: Attic includes Radiant Barrier Foil.
Desired Average Indoor Temperature: 72-74 (warm months only)


Air Systems That comes with house:
Brand: Amana (2)
Rating: 14 SEER; 3.5 tins down stairs & 3.0 tons upstairs
Model: Unknown

Upgraded System at $4K extra (paid out of pocket by buyer and not rolled into house cost)
Brand: TRANE
Model: XR13
Rating: 14 SEER with the same 3.5 ton unit downstairs and a 3.0 ton unit upstairs.
NOTE: I've read and been told that the XR13 is not a true 14 SEER unit and I have to wonder if it is 14 seer why then does TRANE have an XR14 system that is 14 SEER rated and all remaining models have the SEER rating as part of their model. For example the 16 SEER unit is the XL16i. There is no XL15i.


Thanks In advance
Will

[hvac1000]

How can I find out how big an AC unit (in tons) the house truely needs?

Have or do a manual J on the structure.

Is it worth $4K to switch from instaling 2 Amana brand 14 SEER AC units to 2 Trane brand XR13 units

NO not if it is the same size equipment.

I feel like I'm being punished (in the form of $4k out of pocket) for requesting the TRANE brand in stead of the Amana. The TRANE has a warranty twice the duration of the Amanna

I would check the warranty again. Amana has 10 years.

TRANE has a better track record over time.

Who says. Amana is Goodman and Goodman is good.

The quality of all products has more to due with proper install that equipment name.

I however am not certain that it's roughly a $2K difference per unit and therfore that the $4K out of pocket cost to me may include some extra.

If you do not know Im sure do not know.
Have a totally different company do the HVAC if you are so unhappy. The builder will allow a credit I am sure.


Here are some specs on the house and the systems so as to help better address my questions.

House Sqft: 3400
Stories: 2
Window Count: 25 (approx.)
Region: North Texas/Dallas Area
Other: Attic includes Radiant Barrier Foil.
Desired Average Indoor Temperature: 72-74 (warm months only)

Have a manual J done or you do it, IT is the ONLY way to tell what you actually need.
You forgot the most important thing!! Duct size and placement will make or break a system. Do or have a manual D done. It is the only way to be sure of proper duct size and placement.


Air Systems That comes with house:
Brand: Amana (2)
Rating: 14 SEER; 3.5 tins down stairs & 3.0 tons upstairs
Model: Unknown


Save your $$ stick with Amana. For 4000.00 extra it is a looser because you are getting NOTHING extra for your money.


Manual D

Understanding Manual D

Air Conditioning Contractors of America

Manual J

HVAC Sizing Practice


Manual J HVAC Load Calculations


Personal note


First The name means nothing without a good installer. MayTag , Goodman , Amana , Intertherm ,
Delta Therm , Miller, Trane, American Standard, and a host of other have the same 10 year warranty throwed in too. Then a host of
Other have 5 years everything and 10 years compressor. The 10 year warranty is a common thing now days.

Now the Amana and Goodman on 13 seer or up have life time warranty on the compressor.

Now all this said about here. Warranty is needed only if you don't get a good installer. If given a choice of getting a life time
Warranty on everything or get a good installer. I would take the good installer . I shotgun the units and do not recommend any but
Just listed them.


Now here is what I think here. Look the first thing you should be looking at is the installer and next to the last thing would be
The brand. I would take , first a brand that was a pure piece of junk if I knew it was installed by a good installer before I took
The best brand know to man installed by a Hack. The installer is the key to a good running system. Warrentys are for people who
Don't get a good installer or a bad installation. Hacks and bad installers brought on the long warranty game as it is today.


Goodman site/Amana

Air Conditioners, (A/C), Packaged Heat Pumps and Central Air Conditioning (AC) Units for Home Healing and Cooling Systems. Residential and Commercial Heating and Cooling Equipment by Goodman Manufacturing available in 14 SEER and 13 SEER ratings for

Regardless of SEER or AFUE rating, the original, registered, single-family homeowner will receive a 10-Year All-Parts Limited Warranty on all applicable products. Restrictions apply. Online registration required within 60 days of installation. See warranty details for full information.

Amana site.

Amana Air Conditioners, (A/C), Packaged Heat Pumps and Central Air Conditioning (AC) Units for Home Healing and Cooling Systems. Residential and Commercial Heating and Cooling Equipment by Amana Heating and Air Conditioning available in 14 SEER and 1

Warranty

Amana Air Conditioners, (A/C), Packaged Heat Pumps and Central Air Conditioning (AC) Units for Home Healing and Cooling Systems. Residential and Commercial Heating and Cooling Equipment by Amana Heating and Air Conditioning available in 14 SEER and 1

Click on 10 year link.

[wmproop]

Great job,, hvac1000, CAN`T BE SAID ANY PLAINER THAN THAT

[Airboss]

Amana 14 SEER and higher units have a 10 year warranty on all parts, and then if the compressor EVER fails to the original owner, a NEW CONDENSING UNIT will be provided.. BEAT THAT ONE!

[hvac1000]

This post is over a year old. I hope by now his unit is installed and working well. LOL

[peggytas]

If anyone is still looking at this, I am in the market and choosing between Amana and Trane. Trane warranty is parts and labor 10years from Trane. Amana is 10 years limited parts. I will get service warranty from individual installer. The Trane guy is recommending 14 SEER. The Amana guy is recommending 16 SEER. One guy is recommending 5 as opposed to 4 tons, but he is the odd ball. Amana is asking 12k and Trane is asking 9k. Both are reputable. I am not finished getting bids though. I live in zone 11. Thoughts?

[hvac1000]

It will take 25 years to get the payback of the 3000.00 difference this is also considering the interest you will earn on the 3000.00 for the 25 years. Way to long of a payback in my opinion.

Follow the recommendations for a manual J to make sure the correct size of unit has been selected.
Also see below.

[peggytas]

Thanks. By the way, do you have a problem getting Amana parts? Just a credibilty check on the Trane contractor.

[hvac1000]

Amana and Goodman parts are everywhere as far as I know. Actually Trane parts can be hard to come by sometimes.