[labman]

I bought a sub panel last summer. I had to buy and install a ground bar kit. Time after time I read careful instructions here to buy and install a ground bar, mount it with machine screws, and if a main panel, bond it to the neutral. Where would you use a panel that doesn't need an equipment ground? The only thing I have in my panel or subpanel that doesn't have an equipment ground, is the whole house surge protector. It came with only a white wire and instructions to connect it to the neutral bar. My pump and A/C don't have neutrals, but do have grounds.

[tkrussell]

Ahhh, someone is onto the panel manufacturers. Kind of like buying a car but need to pay extra for the steering wheel, or something like that.

Years ago, the neutral bar was plenty, first the home was wired with two wire Loom, Romex without the ground wire, then came along BX, again no need for more ports, the neutral bar was plenty.

Nowadays, with Romex being so popular, for a few decades, now that I think of it, every panel never has enough wire ports for all the neutrals and grounds.

There may be cases, and this is what the manufacturers probably are betting on, that the neutral bar is enough, esp since many panels are set up with Main Breakers.

The standard answer may be "tradition", and let the electrician remember to buy the accessory equipment ground bar.

That I can tell you is the case with electrician, we automatically know the ground bar is an accessory.

Nowadays, with the commercial and industrial panelboards,we need to specify every piece or assembly, such as the box, cover, breaker interior, and keeps on going with the lugs for each live and neutral, etc,etc. and of course, the ground bar.

Think of it, for years manufacturers did not need to include certain parts, no matter what the product. Years later, why would they include something they always were able to sell as an accessory?

[Stratmando]

I think it is Money.

[KISS]

It's to make it appear cheaper than someone else's panel and for the electrical suppliers to tell the average handyman from a licensed electrician.

[grjack]

On main panels you don't need a separate ground bus. Let me clarify - neutral and ground
Bar is the same. There is NO Neutral coming from the telephone pole into
Your main panel - there are 2 insulated hots and a bare ground. This bare ground
Gets screwed onto the neutral bar of the main panel. Also, a ground feed comes off that
Same ground/neutral bus and goes to your water pipe and grounding stake. All white
AND bare ground branch circuits get screwed into this common neutral/grnd bus.

This is the case for main panels only, not the subpanel you have - since they DO have
A separate ground versus neutral bus. But panels are sold as a panel, some may
Use it as a main panel, therefore they wouldn't need to buy the extra ground bus.

[tkrussell]

In an effort to clarify this statement:

There is NO Neutral coming from the telephone pole into
your main panel - there are 2 insulated hots and a bare ground.

The technical term, as defined by the National Electric Code, for the bare, or insulated third wire is Grounded Conductor, not just a "ground".

While NEC does not have an official definition of "neutral" conductor, it will loosely refer to the grounded conductor as a neutral, when applicable, in the proper context.

Not all grounded conductors can be considered as neutral, in specific situations, beyond the scope of this discussion.

However, for all intents and purposes, the Grounded Conductor of a typical 120/240 Single Phase 3 Wire Edison system, is considered, and is more appropriately referred to as a Neutral.

So lets not confuse DIY'ers any more than necessary by getting hung up on terminology, and do not refer to a Grounded Conductor as a "ground".

The suffix "ed" and "ing" become very important when using with the word ground, as each has it's own purpose and intent.

[labman]

With ground bars still being a new fangled thing, perhaps they will get around including them later.

I fortuitously ran into a couple of electricians at my church yesterday. They had been hired to install a projector. Likely a good decision, but it was one more failure to communicate with those with the responsibility for the building. They were from one of the larger contractors in town, and more likely to be competent than others whose work I have found in the building. I told them I was pleased their firm was hired to do the job. I was able to assist them showing them where some of the breaker boxes were and pointing out a couple of them had a number of breakers shut off and as far as I knew, the wiring abandoned.

As they dug into a sub panel installed in the early 50's original construction, the one pointed out it didn't have a ground bar.

Although I had reason to stay around, I mostly stayed out of their way, only stopping by asking if they had any questions a couple of times. I don't know if they quoted the job or were on time and materials. If so, the more I stayed away, the better.

[labman]

Thinking some more about this. When that panel was installed, it was quite common to depend on the metal conduit for equipment ground. What would that leave to connect to a ground bar? Doesn't that still meet code? I know those, less trusting of metal conduit, now pull green wires.

[tkrussell]

Exactly, the popularity of BX helped this along, and yes metal sheathing of BX and conduit is an equipment ground.