[labman]

Grounding is a popular topic here. I have been reading and not commenting on the flickering light thread https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/electr...ts-138268.html
Perhaps some others would do well to skip some of the threads they post to also. I don't see a prompt, but wrong answer as being helpful.

Last night in researching the whole house TVSS I think that I should have, I was doing some reading at Mike Holt Enterprises In the one thread on surge suppressors, several people were very emphatic about the need of a good ground and checking it. That makes a ton of sense to me. How? I have the following coming into my house, some big 3 conductor from the electric company, a PVC water line from the well, a black iron gas pipe, cable, and coax lead from a TV antenna. There is likely a standard ground rod under my electric meter with a heavy copper cable (looks like 7 #10's) acorn nutted to it. I have slipped into the acorn nut a #12 that leads to the housing of my submersible pump and a second #12 from a connector in my cable line. Check your ground. To what? OK I take my knife and multimeter out to the ground rod. I scrape everything down to bare metal. All three wires plus the acorn nut are within a couple of ohms of each other. The top of the rod is about half a meg from them! The rod is copper plated steel.

So what now? Disconnect all 3 wires and clean them and the rod up good, and reconnect? Add a grease? I didn't see a ground rod at the base of the electric pole. I expect there is one the next one down that has the transformer my service comes off. My house was built in 1970, and the electric lines would be older.

As far as the TVSS goes, I think the GE Surge Pro THQL AC Power Surge Portector-GE Plug In is what I should get for in my GE box.

[tkrussell]

The only method of checking a ground is to measure the resistance. NEC recommends that it be 25 ohms or less.

A complicated method is using a 3 point tester:
Ground Testing Techniques

This is not a DIY'er tool, and special training, and experience is required.

A simple easy method is using a clamp on instrument:
Grounding & Power Analysis, Ground Resistance Testers | TESSCO 800 472 7373

Check out the prices shown? Simple to use, but cost prohibitive for a DIY'er.


Any grease applied must be conductive:
Sanchem Inc.

Clean all wire and rod using steel wool, or wire brush. Use a new ground clamp, acorn clamps are fine we use then all the time. We never use any grease on these connections.

To measure the ground, you will probably need to call in an electrician, that has one of the testing instruments. Don't be surprised that most you talk to don't have one. They usually will call in a testing firm for the jobs they must have testing done as part of the specifications.

I have both, the 3/4 point and a couple of the clamp on. Sorry, if you were close I would let you borrow it. Somehow I bet you would prefer the complicated 3 point instrument.

Keep in mind, that a gas line is never to be used as a primary or supplemental grounding electrode, but is to be bonded, per NEC, to the grounding system, only if the gas utility allows this in your area.

At the pole that holds the transformer is where you should see a bare #6 running down the pole into the earth, connecting to a rod there.

Usually just driving a second rod 6 foot or more away from the first and connecting to the first rod is sufficient to get the ohms down. I say usually, sandy or rocky soil is a problem.

[labman]

OK

Ask gas company about grounding the gas line.

Buy some pipe ground clamps. Inside the house, except where I have used PVC/CPVC in changes I have made, I have copper. Clamp a ground wire to the copper between where it starts at the pressure tank and the plastic at the softener, another one after the PVC at the softener, and another on the hot water after the CPVC. Run them all out to ground rod. Or perhaps just jump the softener and water heater.

Accept the possibility that I have a bad connection to the ground rod. Once I have all the wires that need to be connected to it, run to it, take it apart, clean things up, apply conductive grease, install new acorn nut. Would 2 acorn nuts be better, one for the panel ground, and another one for the gas, cable, TV antenna, well, and water lines be better?

Where the ground rod is it is a heavy clay on the north side of the house, under a large tree, and the ground slopes down toward the house. I have had to regrade to reduce water problems.

If I get a chance, check with my neighbor on whether he can check my ground? He makes his living as an industrial electrician. He is the one I borrowed the hickey from when I ran rigid conduit after the dog chewed up the flex to the A/C.

[Stratmando]

Be careful when removing grounds from ground rod. If a shorts exist in the house, when ground is removed, it can create a shock hazzard.
Also about grounds:
Some people see 2 conduits separated in and attic, and not realize the potential hazzard.
Before separate ground wire was used(conduit was ground) if conduit separated, then a short was introduced, it would make one side of conduit live, breaker would not trip, if you grabbed each side, you would get shocked.

[labman]

Yeah, as I mentioned in my last post, I used rigid conduct for my A/C feed. The engineer I learned much of what I know about electricity from hated thin wall. I see too much of it out in public places where it has slipped out of its fittings and is hanging on the wires, a perfect place for the short to develop. Worst part, is that much if it was installed by somebody paid to do the job.

My wife came as I was struggling bending it, and asked if I needed a heavier duty tool. I replied, '''No, a heavier duty operator.''

The ground could be a problem, but the ground and neutral is bonded in my panel, and I hope the neutral is at least as well grounded at the pole as my ground rod. Nothing I can count on, and even if I shut my main breaker off, it may work no better than in Council Bluffs.

[labman]

''Keep in mind, that a gas line is never to be used as a primary or supplemental grounding electrode, but is to be bonded, per NEC, to the grounding system, only if the gas utility allows this in your area.''

OK, after poking around the gas company's website, I found a place to send questions. I asked about their policy on bonding the gas line to the electric ground.

They emailed me:
''
We have received your inquiry regarding _____________ policy pertaining to the gas lines. _____________ furnishes, installs
And maintains all necessary piping from the gas main to the meter only and the facilities are installed in
Accordance with applicable state and local codes and regulations. The customer is responsible for all gas piping,
Equipment and appliances from the meter to the home and you may contact your local county code enforcement
Office or a local gas plumber to obtain your requested information. ''

So the gas company is saying I need to ask somebody else about the gas company's policy?

I am sure the gas piping does ground through the equipment ground for the furnace.

[tkrussell]

So much for taking responsibility for their own system. You got to laugh, otherwise you can go crazy dealing with these companies.

Sure, the piping is unintentionally bonded by connection to appliances. Most time this is enough, I know, not very definite and measurable, and documentable, if there is such a word.

By the way, the reason that the gas pipe is not allowed to be used as a grounding electrode is due to the insulation on metal pipes, and nowadays even more nonmetallic pipe is used in the ground.

Quick story, not about gas but electric utility. Customer has a 3 in conduit pole riser that drops down under ground and enters the basement. They are getting water into the basement through this pipe.

Even though the riser has a weather head, just as any overhead connection would have, driving rain was getting into the conduit, along with help from one cable not having a drip loop.

Call the utility, customer owns and maintains the conduit, on the utility company pole. I know that. Guy tells me I need to furnish labor and material to go up pole and pack the weatherhead. No problem for me.

But, there is a problem, it is a utility pole, I cannot go up the pole, he says.

In my typical... manner, I had to ask, "Did you hear yourself? Is this a joke?"

Would you believe this guy did not get it? Once I spoke to a supervisor, I got a lineman and a bucket there, and I handed him a can of foam, done.

Give the utility a call, all you get at the other end of email is who knows. (Now this is a conversation I would love to hear). Get to talk to engineering dept, I would hope you get someone who knows the drill.