[labman]

From a PM:

''Labman,
This is not a funny joke or anything. We are having a problem with overwhelming numbers of coyotes in TN. At work the other day we were discussing coyote numbers again, yes again, and the topic of discussion became that coyotes were suppose to be able to determine the sex of the offspring when bred. Therefore, saying if there was a low number of males, she would have males, and if the female numbers were low, she would have females. Is there in facts about this? I have begun a research on this on the web. Rubypitbull thinks that my chain was being pulled, but we were all being very serious. As we are trying to cut down on the number of coyotes.''

RubyPitbull seems to do a very good job of picking up on bull. She has pointed out several things I missed. I see several possibilities in addition the chain which I see as plausible. I never remember anything about, but it could still be true. I really lean to it being one more old wives tale or urban legend. When it comes to dogs and their wild cousins, there is an amazing amount of disinformation around. The net has brought new life into many of the myths of the 50's. I only say the 50's because that was when I was young and first heard many of them.

If coyotes follow the pattern of the wolves where only the pack leaders breed, the ratio of the sexes wouldn't make much difference. Since only 4 of the 15 puppies we have raised for the dog guide school have been males, people occasionally ask me if they breed mostly females. My answer it that if they could, they could sell the secret to the dairy industry for enough to support the program for ever. I think we usually get females because we are willing to put up with them going through their season, and never have let one get accidentally bred. They are spayed after the very best are selected as breeding stock after they are a year old.

It is interesting how much progress wildlife has made living in developed areas now. I think that there are deer being born in Dearborn. Pennsylvania has many more bears now then when I was living there as a kid. I don't think I ever saw any Canadian Geese until the 70's. Coyotes are noshing on pets everywhere.

It is site policy not to ask or answer questions by PM or email. Somebody else may have good info on this.

[RubyPitbull]

labman, from the research I am turning up, coyotes are pretty much the same as wolves regarding pack structure. Only one breeding pair, the alpha pair. The packs consist of their offspring. One thing I didn't mention to him, and probably should have, is that dogs, wolves, & coyotes, all are genetically 99% the same and are capable of interbreeding (sp?), so I cannot see how coyotes can do something the others cannot. I told him that I think he needs to ask the person who told him this to provide the source they are quoting from. I do think this is an urban legend. I found a lot of the web sites basically said the same thing so I am only going to attach a couple of web sites for him here and direct him to this thread.

FWC - Critter Questions - Coyote
Coyote | The Humane Society of the United States

[froggy7]

Question: Is it true that only the alphas breed? I'm curious, because I've been watching Meerkat Manor, where the claim is that the dominant pair reserve breeding rights for themselves. But what you find out from watching the show is that the subordinants spend a lot of time having sex, and getting pregnant. But the dominant female will either evict a pregnant subordinant from the group, or kill and eat the other litters. And there was one episode where the dominant just moved the family away from a subordinant that had given birth, forcing her to abandon her pups if she wanted to stay in the group. Occasionally, they will even let another litter survive, if the conditions are right. And the dominant female will sometimes mate with an outside male (not the dominant of the group), if he manages to sneak past all the other males in the family that try and keep the rovers away.

Which got me thinking about wolves/dogs. Surely the other females in the pack go into heat? And I find it hard to imagine an alpha male walking by some other willing female and not having a go at her. Or that a subordinant male wouldn't try with the alpha female if the alpha male isn't there to run him off. I mean, it's not like the pack gets together and discusses who gets to have babies and who doesn't, and mating is a pretty strong species imperative.

So, when people say things like "only the alpha wolves mate and have offspring", is it that they are the only ones mating, or the only ones who have pups that get to live?

[RubyPitbull]

Froggy, I watch Meerkat Manor too. Fascinating program. I was wondering the same thing with regard to coyotes & wolves. From what I am reading on the internet, it is stated that only the alphas breed. I am not sure if that means if another in the pack has pups, then they are killed by the alpha, or if that by the time a pack member is of age to either sire or give birth to pups, they are forced out of the pack to find a mate and start their own pack. The stuff I was pulling up pretty much was stating that when the young come of age, they get forced out of the pack. The question posed by the person asking, got me to thinking that I need to do some more research on wolves & coyotes in general, outside of the internet. The whole pack structure and exactly what happens interests me. I am going to see what I can turn up at the library this week. I also am going to try to speak with a vet friend to see what he knows and see if he can give me some other ideas on where I can find information.

[RubyPitbull]

Here is an interesting link from an education web site regarding their social structure:

Coyote social organization

[MOWERMAN2468]

labman, from the research I am turning up, coyotes are pretty much the same as wolves regarding pack structure. Only one breeding pair, the alpha pair. The packs consist of their offspring. One thing I didn't mention to him, and probably should have, is that dogs, wolves, & coyotes, all are genetically 99% the same and are capable of intrabreeding (sp?), so I cannot see how coyotes can do something the others cannot. I told him that I think he needs to ask the person who told him this to provide the source they are quoting from. I do think this is an urban legend. I found a lot of the web sites basically said the same thing so I am only going to attach a couple of web sites for him here and direct him to this thread.

FWC - Critter Questions - Coyote
Coyote | The Humane Society of the United States

The first site, says that indiscriminate killing with lethal force of coyotes does not really hurt the population, that they can take up to a 70% loss per year and repopulate. That is what I was saying ruby, that we kill them and kill them and they are still here. And also that the females could determine sexes. The site didn't say the determination of sexes, just about the population of coyotes not usually being actually hurt by killing off up to 70%. And it did say to try and kill out the population more in a particular area for better results. That is what we are trying, but they are still here.

[MOWERMAN2468]

Here is an interesting link from an education web site regarding their social structure:

Coyote social organization

Hey ruby,
This too is a good site, just not the info we are searching, and it described the pack howling we hear. That is what I mean, there is more and more coyotes here it seems. We kill and kill and they're still here.
The other site discussed the pups breeding as early as 10 months of age. So that means you do not miss a years breeding. Because the gestation period is 63 days (typical for canines) [2months] that leaves 10 months to grow, and guess what, they are becoming breeding age during the breeding season in late winter. Man they just keep on multiplying.

[RubyPitbull]

Yes, mowerman. I included that additional site for froggy's benefit.

If you can access the TN Fish & Game link I gave to you, there was info on there as to how to deal with them. But they don't talk about long term population control. I can see how that is a huge issue for you. I do think that if it is getting to the point where everyone in your area feels overrun, you need to get Fish & Game involved. They have a responsibility to make sure that everyone is safe. They do have a system/rules in place to deal with population overruns of any wild life that is considered a threat to the residents. They need to be alerted to the problem.

[froggy7]

And coyotes that live in urban areas tend to be more dangerous than those who live in rural areas. As they lose their fear of man, they become more likely to attack people. This has led to attacks on hikers in California. And what encourages coyotes can be very minor. The big things cited in California were feeding pets outside, birdfeeders, insecure trash, and gardens. All provide food for coyotes, leading them to hang out in the area and get bolder about attacking.

[RubyPitbull]

Good points froggy. I thought that MM is in more of a rural area where there are farms, and they are getting into livestock. But, he and I didn't really discuss that. MM, this is the direct file that I was talking about in my PM that you couldn't load. Maybe you will have better luck today. http://www.state.tn.us/twra/pdfs/coyotecontrol.pdf

They do talk about the methods that you & your co-workers use, are ineffective in the long run. They also talk about contacting them if you are having this problem, which is what you and I spoke about. Leave it up to them to figure out what the best method would be. Where I live, Fish & Game doesn't charge for their services. I would imagine that it would be pretty much the same set up in other states.

[MOWERMAN2468]

Good points froggy. I thought that MM is in more of a rural area where there are farms, and they are getting into livestock. But, he and I didn't really discuss that. MM, this is the direct file that I was talking about in my PM that you couldn't load. Maybe you will have better luck today. http://www.state.tn.us/twra/pdfs/coyotecontrol.pdf

They do talk about the methods that you & your co-workers use, are ineffective in the long run. They also talk about contacting them if you are having this problem, which is what you and I spoke about. Leave it up to them to figure out what the best method would be. Where I live, Fish & Game doesn't charge for their services. I would imagine that it would be pretty much the same set up in other states.

You are correct ruby, our techniques of shooting all we can does not work in the long run. I spoke with a friend today that has a vet for a wife and he is going to ask her if she has heard of this, the selective sex of the offspring by the mother that is. And yes I do live on a farm.

[Emily94]

Well we hunt coyotes, but when were scoping out good palaces to hunt, we see many coyotes with young pups, and there usually by themselves, so I don't no but from what I've seen, almost all coyotes have the puppies, but I also to have herd from hunters that coyotes can have mostly male, or mostly female pups.

[MOWERMAN2468]

Update, I spoke to the guy I know that has a vet wife, she told him that she had no knowledge of this and that they were canines and thought they should be like any other dog.
But emily94 also said she has heard that the coyote female can have mostly male or female.

[RubyPitbull]

I would trust the vet on this one MM. ;)

[labman]

One hears all sorts of things. Some opinions are based on rigorous, controlled testing. For instance, the Purina study on obesity shortening dogs' lives linked to from the evaluation link I continually harp on, LongLiveYourDog.com - Life Span Study - Rate Your Dog Other opinions are just somebody's speculation or based on a limited number of uncontrolled personal observations. As Ruby said, trust the vet even if some of them are kooks too.

[MOWERMAN2468]

Thanks for your help ruby, got to spread some around.

[RubyPitbull]

No problem MM. Glad I could help. I still think you should get in contact with that guy from Fish & Game. If you or your neighbors are losing livestock to the coyotes, the State will help step up the program with additional help and ideas. Also, most states do have a law in place that will reimburse people for their loss of "property" (livestock, hardwood,. ) . So, you can file claims with them. I went through that when someone trespassed on my property cutting down hardwood. They have been more helpful to me than the local police.

[MOWERMAN2468]

Yes I seen him going down the road the other day, and I will be catching up with him. Update, one less coyote on the farm after this morning.