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-   -   Should my furnace always take 2 attempts to ignite? (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=402472)

  • Oct 4, 2009, 06:06 AM
    roach1978
    Should my furnace always take 2 attempts to ignite?
    Just moved into a new (to us) home with a goodman furnace model gms80904bna and the furnace will never ignite on the first attempt. In the beginning, it would use up all 3 attempts and shut down. Power clear, and it would finally fire up on the 5th (total) try. This is what I see... Once the hot surface ignitor lights up, I hear the gas valve click open and what seems like nanosecounds later the ignitor goes out without the gas being ignited. When it does work, the burner/flame is strong, stead and of the proper color. I had HVAC dude look at this problem and he cleaned the flame sensor with emery cloth and added a 14GA wire from the burner assembly to the I-beam/conduit of the home. What I also have noticed is that while it is in daliy duty, it will always catch on the 2nd try. If its warm for a few days, it takes more tries to catch. One more thing, where can I find a manual for this model??
    Thanks in advance!!
    Roach1978
  • Oct 4, 2009, 08:32 AM
    tjg

    Could be a number of things , possiable that the his ignitor is weak not glowing hot enough ,relay for his ignitor intermittly making bad contact cuasing a voltage drop across contacts , flame rod not sensing flame properly , poor ground, chassis of furnace should be properly grounded, furnace wired on a dedicaded circuit fron circuit panel
  • Oct 4, 2009, 09:09 AM
    hvacbw
    Should lite first time every-time. You have some type of issue. Your safety circuit is shutting your unit down. Typically after 3-5 attempts, unit goes into Lockout, and it has to have the power cycled to clear, as you stated. Sometimes there are one or two LEDs that flash an error code. If so, there will be an error code list somewhere on the burner or blower panels. Here is what I can offer, some items may or may not pertain.

    Manual: Other than internet or calling a dealer, I don't know. May have to purchase. Look real good around / behind and even in the furnace blower and burner sections. I have found them in the blower section, bad place for them, but I've found them there.

    a) Flame sensor. Ask tech to clean spade connector and mounting surfaces of the sensor (1) around the screw mounting hole on sensor and (2) on the burner assembly as well with the emery cloth. Need good electrical signal path through these areas to furnace chassis, which is usually tied to the 24VAC transformer common. That jumper may not necessarily be connecting to the common. I assume he checked the jumper connections and continuity to ground. I've never seen this type of jumper used to make a flame sensor work. Verify continuity from flame connector (with plug disconnected) to furnace chassis near transformer. Ground path could be loss in some mechanical connection between these two points.
    b) if this is a high-efficiency furnace, it will be sensitive to inducer motor air-flow (sensed by pressure switch) and / or availability of combustion air. If sealed combustion (burner assembly enclosed), try removing cover and running furnace. If it starts first / every time, check all vent lines for blockage (both intake air to combustion, and exhaust vent). These will typically be 2 inch pvc pipe. Make sure to check in the combustion box where vent pipe enters. I have found mice carcasses, leaves, twigs, feathers in these. Just partial blockage of air flow can shut down furnace. Also, make sure these pipes are not blocked on the exterior of house (leaves, plastic bags, snow, etc.). Make sure the exhaust does not get sucked in by intake. May have to have plumber 'snake' to confirm clearance if all else fails.
    c)Combustion Air - any gas furnace / old or new. Whether in a crawl space, basement, closet, or attic, they need adequate air to burn. Leave open any access doors / windows to test. Add ventilation for air supply if this is cause.
    d)Exhaust venting - any gas furnace, mainly 4 inch metal single wall / b-vent. Make sure all connections are secure. Combustion "debris" can accumulate over time and minimize exhaust flow. Poor exhaust will allow small non-combustibles / corrosion of venting, etc. to drop out of exhaust / off venting walls and accumulate. Nasty stuff, have hvac tech take vent apart and confirm venting clear. Especially troublesome if many 90 elbows and / or long horizontal runs. Look for rust / corrosion on joints / seams of venting. If you see this, you likely have type of issue to address. It will appear like sand, and be quite bad dust for you. Look for this below / around vent connections on floor / ground, even on / in furnace.
    d) Pressure switch. If there is one, check to make sure tubing ports are clear... push paper clip through1/4 inch or so to clear. Check tubing, make sure it is secure on ports and is not dried / cracked. Tech can jump around this to confirm functionality.
    e) gas valve - have tech check inlet pressure. Too high and it may overcome the valve regulator. Need gas supply meter /regulator before furnace checked. Valve itself could be bad. Most expensive item, make sure all other items OK first.
    f)long shot - transformer has gone weak, or has been replaced with too low of a VA rating to supply required furnace 24 volt circuits.


    My bet is on a venting / air supply issue, but double check that flame sensor connection anyway. I clean sensor and connections at each service interval.

    Sorry for long wind. I may not get back to this for a while. Hope this helps, if not, hope someone can help.
  • Feb 13, 2011, 12:52 PM
    sleepydo

    Roach1978,

    I know this is old post but we have same problem and have same model goodman.

    Did you ever find out the problem?

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