[BrodyNoochie]

I have been checking other posts about outlets not working but I still don't know what to do. During an Ice Storm this past weekend, my Christmas lights went out. I have the lights plugged into a power strip that is then plugged into an outlet outside. During the storm half the lights went out and then about a half hour later, the other half went out. I thought this was strange since they were plugged into the same spot. I thought it was a problem with the lights but I tested them and they work. Later, I realized that the garage outlet and thebasement bathroom outlet are not working either.

The only GFCI outlets I have found are upstairs in the kitchen and bathroom. I reset them both and it did not solve the problem. I reset every breaker and it did not solve the problem. I find it unusual that there is not any GCFI outlets outside or in the bathroom downstairs (espicially since my house was just built in 1993). I have checked everywhere, looking for another outlet but can not find it.

Questions:
-What should I do next?
-Can the reset button for an outlet be somewhere else (maybe internally,like in the outlet box itself)?
-Can a GCFI outlet that is located upstairs or in the attic be connected to an outlet that is outside or in the basement?
-Can an outlet reset itself?

Additional informaiton that could be relevant: A few months ago the basement bathroom outlet quit working (not a GCFI outlet). I didnt get around to looking at it for a week or two. By the time I went to look at it, it was working fine again.

Sorry for the long winded question.
Thanks for your help.

[grjack]

"I have the lights plugged into a power strip that is then plugged into an outlet outside."

Does this power strip have any type of built-in gfi and/or overload circuit breaker or fuse?

-Can the reset button for an outlet be somewhere else (maybe internally,like in the outlet box itself)?

I've never seen any 'internal' reset buttons, but are there any GFI circuit breakers in your
Service panel? They look like a regular circuit breaker, but have a prominent reset button
On them.

[labman]

Are the other outlets that aren't working GFCI? If they have resets, do they stay in when pushed? As far as I know there are 3 things you can feed a device to give it GFCI protection. The most commonis a GFCI outlet, anything fed from the load terminals is GFCI protected. You can protect a whole circuit with a GFCI breaker. The last thing I forget its name. It is just like an outlet, but it doesn't have holes for the plugs, just the test and reset buttons. You need to find it and push the reset, not know its name. They may be used to give a light over a tub GFCI protection. It sounds like you have one of those somewhere. And yes, it could be anywhere. Besides outside, you need GFCI in kitchens, basements, garages, baths, anywhere around water. Resets are out where you can see them

[BrodyNoochie]

Hi guys

Thanks for the quick response. To answer your questions:

-the power strip does not have any built-in protection (yeah, I should have probably gotten one).
- there are no GFI breakers in the service panel
- the other outlets that are not working are not GFCI. This surprised me since the outlets that are not working are outside, in my garage, and in my basement bathroom. I thought they had to be on GFCI.

Can an outlet reset itself? As I said, last time this happened I hadn't gotten around to looking at it and then all of a sudden it was working again.

Thanks again

[BrodyNoochie]

New development: I have found a GFC outlet that I thought was working but apparently is not. The Reset button just keeps kicking out. I assume I need to replace it but if anyone knows more about this I would appreciate the help.

Thanks

[labman]

GFCI outlets go bad. Hey, nothing lasts forever. Before replacing it, disconnect anything connected to the line side. Still won't reset? You may be able to fix the problem for about $15.

[Stratmando]

I think Labman meant to say disconnect anything from the "LOAD" side, not line side.
Bath should be on GFI, Also, a regular outlet may be GFI Protected.

[labman]

Oops!

[Cobraguy]

During the storm half the lights went out and then about a half hour later, the other half went out. I thought this was strange since they were plugged into the same spot.

This part of his statement bothers me. The only thing I can figure is the ice storm did something to his string of lights knocking half of them out... then later it got to the point it tripped the GFCI. Weird. Then toss this in...

Additional informaiton that could be relevant: A few months ago the basement bathroom outlet quit working (not a GCFI outlet). I didnt get around to looking at it for a week or two. By the time I went to look at it, it was working fine again

I've never seen a GFCI reset itself. Maybe someone in the house reset it when they found another outlet that was dead? Even though your bathroom doesn't have a GFCI outlet, I'm sure it's GFCI protected.

[Stratmando]

I was also thinking someone reset a GFI without your knowledge?
If you plug an extension cord into known good receptacle and bring next to bad receptacle.
Use this cord as a reference. Plug into cord hot, and receptacle neutral, if neutral is not intact, it is the load of a GFI. When GFI's trip, it disconnects the Hot AND Neutral.
Also, GFI's will have live voltage when tripped. Be Careful, Take Care

[BrodyNoochie]

Thanks Everyone. I was planning to attempt to replace the outlet today.

You said before replacing anything, disconnect everything from the load side. Obviously, I don't know much about this stuff. Are you saying to disconnect everything from the load side and then test the outlet to see if it works?

Thanks again

[Stratmando]

GFI's have power LINE in(hot and neutral), has a LOAD side(2 more screws that can go to regular recepticles for protection. If GFI is removed, and you disconnect the LOAD side. And GFI does not trip, GFI may be good. Could be a problem with something on that load side. A hot touching or leaking to ground, or neutral making it to a hot.
Hot and Neutral MUST draw equal current or they will trip.

[BrodyNoochie]

OK... I disconnected the LOAD side and it seems to be working. I purchased an outlet tester and the reading with the LOAD side disconnected is "correct". If I hook the LOAD side back up the reading is "Open Hot".

So, where do I go from here?

[labman]

Check all the dead outlets for a short to ground in either the hot or neutral. If you have to, disconnect them one at a time.

[BrodyNoochie]

Sorry... I hate sounding ignorant but how do I know if there is a "short to ground in either the hot or neutrel"

This is my first time working on anything electrical

[Stratmando]

A little dangerous for first time maybe, what someone should do, with Power off:
With the load side disconnected, you need to measure resistance between the Hot and ground of wires to defective receptacle. Also check for voltage between white and ground. And resistance between white and ground. Good luck.
Oh yeah also measure resistance between hot and neutral of wires to defective receptacle.
You are actually measuring the disconnected LOAD wires.
All reading should be open and no voltage.

[grjack]

Checking short to grnd can be done a couple of ways:
A) easiest (and cheapest) - buy one of those plug testers at home depot/lowes/etc. -
3 prongs -plugs into the receptacles - about $10-$15. Has a few lites on it- the combination of lights will tell you if there is a short or not.
b) - use a digital multimeter (these are more like $50 if you don't have one).
Check voltage from neutral (larger slot size in receptacles - hot is smaller slot)
To ground- there should be none. Also, you can check impedance (ohms) from
Hot to ground - but TURN OFF electric at main panel first - mulitmeters don't like voltage
Running through them while on the ohm setting. There should be no reading between
Hot and ground - if it gives you a low ohm reading- there is a short. Also check
Impedance between hot and neutral - same thing- should be no reading.

[BrodyNoochie]

I have a plug tester. When I plug it into the GFCI outlet that is not working it displays no lights, which means "Open Hot" but I don't really know what "open hot" means. I have not tried it on the other non working outlets though. Assuming they are all "open hot", what next? How do I fix a short?

[Stratmando]

Three things come to mind:
1) With power off, remove gfi, connect the 2 blacks together, and the 2 whites together, with no gfi, then go to(Garage) receptacle and plug that tester you have in and see results.

2) That tester needs voltage if it is the one I think it is.
You need a multimeter, continuity tester may locate problem, but not if high resistance.
Then, do test in my last post. You'll know if meter is set for continuity, if when needle goes over when you touch both probes together.
That black and white cannot be touching anything during test.
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Another Idea, and not meant to be a fix for this problem. But you could turn power off,
Go to first gfi location, connect 2 blacks and a small pigtail. Connect to hot(Line In), 2 whites together, small pigtail and connect to Line in (Neutral), Install a second GFI at that location. If either trip, you don't have to go to other location?

[BrodyNoochie]

Ok... I tried a few things and still am not having any luck. Maybe someone can interprett my results though

I put both blacks together on the LINE and both whites together on the LINE side. When I flipped the breaker on it just kicked itself again right away.

I have a digitalmultimeter and here are my results
-I go zeros across the board for resistance (ohm)
-For my voltage test I got 23 or less for neutral-hot
I got 120 for ground to hot
I got 0 for neutral-ground
I got 120 for hot only

I hooked the outlet back up as normal before I walked away in frusteration tonight. I plugged the 3 prong tester back in just to check and right now it is turning all 3 lights on. I have no idea what it means when all 3 lights come on because the instructions don't give that as one of the possible outcomes.

Additional assistance is appreciated. I would love to keep hacking away at this and get it taken care of... even if I am in way over my head.

Thanks again