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VictoriaD · May 14, 2007, 09:15 AM

Is child support paid in arrears or in advance? I live in Fl. my courtordered child support is paid directly to me from my ex, after a year and a half he's trying to convince me that he's ahead of the game because all support is paid in arrears, meaning if he pays me on April 25th, he's actually paying me for march 25th to April 25th not April 25 to May 24.
This doesn't make sense to me and no where does it say from what date to what date a monthly payment covers.

Thanks Victoria

ScottGem · May 14, 2007, 09:39 AM

What does the support agreement say? When did it take effect and when were payments supposed to start? For example, if the effective date of agreement was November 25th, 2005 and the first payment was due Dec 25th, then he is paying for the previous month. However, if the first payment was due 11/25 then he is paying for the coming month. I don't think there are laws or custom governing this. Its dependent on the divorce agreement. So you need to look at the agreement and check the effective date of the agreement against the date of his first payment.

VictoriaD · May 14, 2007, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

What does the support agreement say? When did it take effect and when were payments supposed to start? For example, if the effective date of agreement was November 25th, 2005 and the first payment was due Dec 25th, then he is paying for the previous month. However, if the first payment was due 11/25 then he is paying for the coming month. I don't think there are laws or custom governing this. Its dependent on the divorce agreement. so you need to look at the agreement and check the effective date of the agreement against the date of his first payment.

Actually it says "commencing" on Sept. 25, 2005 and on the 25th day of each month thereafter".
This agreement (contract ) was made and printed up on Aug. 31, 2005, but wasn't finalized until Oct. 18, 2005. I'm assuming that his support started on Sept. 25, as it is in our final judgement.

Thank you so much for your help.. . Commencing... amazing how paying attention to that one over-looked word gave me my power back.
Thank you again!

Victoria

tawnynkids · May 14, 2007, 10:15 AM

Originally Posted by VictoriaD

I'm assuming that his support started on Sept. 25, as it is in our final judgement.Victoria

You are correct Victoria, it did start on Sept 25, so his first payment was due Sept 25. That payment would be for Sept 25th to October 25th.

*in amazement, not disbelief* It really says "and the 25th day of each month thereafter"... wow how odd. Most court ordered child support is due on the 1st of every month regardless of the "commencement" date.

ScottGem · May 14, 2007, 10:29 AM

Actually, I'd have to see the full text to decide, but it looks like he may be right. Since the agreement was dated 8/31 and payments were to commence on 9/25, then I would say he is paying for the previous month.

Why is this an issue? The only place I can see it being an issue is in when the support ends. For example, if the agreement says it ends during the period in which the child's 18th birthday occurs, and lets say that occurs on 6/5/2015, then payments stop with the 6/25/15 pmt according to him. According to your way they stop with the 5/25 payment.

VictoriaD · May 14, 2007, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by tawnynkids

You are correct Victoria, it did start on Sept 25, so his first payment was due Sept 25. However, even though it says "and each month thereafter", typically his payments are due the 1st of every month (unless it specifies something like "payable on the 1st and the 15th") but not typically not "late" until the last day of the month. Child support payments are due for the month of, not date to date. So his payment of the 25th was due for September but his October payment would still be due on the 1st for October.

It does say "and on the 25th day of each month thereafter",

I was allowing him to pay me weekly because he could not afford the first payment, but it got out of hand, was never paid on time and he has the means to pay completely now as he is remarried, has been since 3 day after our divorce, has no rent or mortgage, credit cards, nothing but food and utilities.
When I told them they had missed a week, his wife added up his payments from jan. 1 06 instead of from Sept 25. 05 and told me he had over paid by a few hundred dollars because a lawyer, not his lawyer, but a lawyer told them that everyone knows that child support is never paid in advance.
I stopped taking partial payments and now he's 3 months behind as our agreement also says "none of his bills comes before his child support", I shouldn't have to take nickles and dimes at his convenience when he's buying new trucks and going on vacations.

Thank you so much for your help.

victoria

ScottGem · May 14, 2007, 10:53 AM

In that issue, it doesn't matter which way the payment covers. I'm assuming the payments were to comence on 9/25/05. Lets say he was to pay $250 a month. That means, as of 4/25/06 he should have paid a total of $5000 (20x$250). For the purposes of determining whether he is in arrears, all you need do is count the number of 25ths of the month that have passed starting with 9/25/05.

As I said the only time the period the payment covers matters is at the end.

If he or his new wife give you this "support is never paid in advance". Tell them they are correct as per the support agreement. But that its immaterial in terms of determining arrears. All that matters is how many 25ths have passed.

tawnynkids · May 14, 2007, 10:56 AM

Exactly!

Everyone pays in arrears BLAH! What a... not too bright is he? Sounds like your ex is as much a manipulator as mine!

VictoriaD · May 14, 2007, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

Actually, I'd have to see the full text to decide, but it looks like he may be right. Since the agreement was dated 8/31 and payments were to commence on 9/25, then I would say he is paying for the previous month.

Why is this an issue? the only place I can see it being an issue is in when the support ends. For example, if the agreement says it ends during the period in which the childs 18th birthday occurs, and lets say that occurs on 6/5/2015, then payments stop with the 6/25/15 pmt according to him. According to your way they stop with the 5/25 payment.

8/31 was the day that it says 'after full disclosure both parties acept this agreement", 9/8 was the day it was maile to both parties, 9/13 is whne it was "hand delivered" to the judge and 10/18 was our court date.
After our divorce he started paying me weekly starting on the 25 of Oct. because he couldn't afford the one payment of $890.00, over a period, he was paying late or not at all. He added up what he paid me for the year of 05 only and told me he had over paid because everyone (not just him) pays in arrears
The last payment I received from him was on March 11, it was for 2 weeks which took him right up to March 25th, when I told him, no more partial payments, that's when he came up with that that he didn't owe me anything until April 25th because child support is paid in arrears and he's caught up if he has to pay monthly.
He's not looking at our documents, he's going by the assumption that all child support is paid in arrears every month and not in advance.

VictoriaD · May 14, 2007, 11:12 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

In that issue, it doesn't matter which way the payment covers. I'm assuming the payments were to comence on 9/25/05. Lets say he was to pay $250 a month. That means, as of 4/25/06 he should have paid a total of $5000 (20x$250). For the purposes of determining whether he is in arrears, all you need do is count the number of 25ths of the month that have passed starting with 9/25/05.

As I said the only time the period the payment covers matters is at the end.

If he or his new wife give you this "support is never paid in advance". Tell them they are correct as per the support agreement. But that its immaterial in terms of determining arrears. All that matters is how many 25ths have passed.

Makes sense to me, but unfortunately I didn't keep track of every payment made to me, they have all the bank stements.

But before I take this any further I will do exactly that,
Tell them to count all the 25ths beginning with sept 25, 05 and that should solve the problems.

You guys are great thanks!

Victoria

ScottGem · May 14, 2007, 11:25 AM

Yep, Seems he was in arrers right from the get go if he didn't make his first payment until October. Like I said, you don't want to or need to argue the point. Whether support is paid in arrears or ahead is IMMATERIAL! The only thing that determines arrears is whether the correct number of payments have been made from day ONE! You can multiple what he was supposed to pay by 20 and that's the figure he should have paid until now. If he can show he has paid more than that figure, then he's ahead.

If I were you, I would open up a spreadsheet program and try to reconstruct his payments. Make a row for each payment made and when it was made and what month it was applied to. Go back through your deposit records.

Keep this log accurately going forward (add check numbers). Once you reconcile it, you will be able to show then exactly what he paid.

Good luck

tawnynkids · May 14, 2007, 11:30 AM

If he has a decent, reliable job it also may be to your benefit to open the child support case for enforcement at your local child support department. That way they can garnish his wages and it will be taken out of his control. Either way you have a court order that you can enforce but as long as he isn't one of those that quits jobs a lot a child support agency can help get you the payments regularly. If you are savy enough you can also go to your local court house obtain the forms yourself for a wage garnishment and serve it on his employer. But the child support department will do it for free, they are just really slow at getting it going.

p.s. if you do go to a child support department don't let your ex give you any cock and bull that he can stop paying you until they take it out his pay because he is responsible UNTIL they actually take it out of his pay!

jverner · May 14, 2007, 12:08 PM

At least here in Texas, child support is paid in advance and is not refundable. This usually comes up when a child graduates from high school in the middle of a month (usually May) and the parent who pays child support wants to know whether he or she either can pay only pro-rated child support (on May 1) or obtain a pro rata refund for the second part of May after the child graduates. The answer to both questions is "no."

VictoriaD · May 14, 2007, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

Yep, Seems he was in arrers right from the get go if he didn't make his first payment until October. Like I said, you don't want to or need to argue the point. Whether support is paid in arrears or ahead is IMMATERIAL! The only thing that determines arrears is whether the correct number of payments have been made from day ONE!. You can multiple what he was supposed to pay by 20 and that's the figure he should have paid til now. If he can show he has paid more than that figure, then he's ahead.

If I were you, I would open up a spreadsheet program and try to reconstruct his payments. Make a row for each payment made and when it was made and what month it was applied to. Go back thru your deposit records.

Keep this log accurately going forward (add check numbers). Once you reconcile it, you will be able to show then exactly what he paid.

Good luck

I just asked him to get together all of his cancled checks from day one so that we can work it out and he said he'd rather go to court so that he can get his payments modified because he doesn't make what he was when the order was drawn up. Go figure, he has no mortgage or rent or any other bills other than utilities, food and his personal luxuries and he prefers to pay a lawyer than to just get it figured out. What sucks is that he really is a good father and he is causing us not to be able to parent together because we always fight over money.

Hey,
Thanks again!

Victoria

VictoriaD · May 14, 2007, 12:17 PM

Originally Posted by jverner

At least here in Texas, child support is paid in advance and is not refundable. This usually comes up when a child graduates from high school in the middle of a month (usually May) and the parent who pays child support wants to know whether he or she either can pay only pro-rated child support (on May 1) or obtain a pro rata refund for the second part of May after the child graduates. The answer to both questions is "no."

It's just simply ridiculous to me that anyone who is paying to help raise a child and see's that it's going to just that, why fight over paying or getting anything back. It's your children.

Thanks for the info.

Victoria

VictoriaD · May 14, 2007, 12:23 PM

Originally Posted by tawnynkids

If he has a decent, reliable job it also may be to your benefit to open the child support case for enforcement at your local child support department. That way they can garnish his wages and it will be taken out of his control. Either way you have a court order that you can enforce but as long as he isn't one of those that quits jobs a lot a child support agency can help get you the payments regularly. If you are savy enough you can also go to your local court house obtain the forms yourself for a wage garnishment and serve it on his employer. But the child support department will do it for free, they are just really slow at getting it going.

p.s. if you do go to a child support department don't let your ex give you any cock and bull that he can stop paying you until they take it out his pay because he is responsible UNTIL they actually take it out of his pay!

I got the number for the child support enforcement in fl. mainly because I would like the payments to be made through them so that he and I won't have to fight over if he did or didn't, I really wasn't keeping written track of his payments If they would garnish his wages, I'm sorry I know I shouldn't say or feel this way, but after what he's put me through, I wouldn't mind him having that aggrivation.

Thanks again!
Victoria