[wildandblue]

Classyt I love your question, also I'm an old man (85) with no time or inclination to read all 4 pages of answers, so I'll just respond to your original question with my 2 cents worth:
Truth is true whether you happen to believe in it or not. When you think about it, we spend like 25 years or so growing up and learning, maybe 25 years as an independent adult, and the next 25 or so gradually forgetting stuff. So if we are "smart" for maybe a third of our lives, and our "smarts" were provided to us mostly by other people, our mentors and teachers and parents and friends and relatives; what exactly do we have to be so proud of? That we paid attention once in awhile when our dad or mom told us stuff? That we learned how to read so we could read a book or instruction manual or a speed limit sign? We will be remembered for who we were, not what we knew. A person can have a lot of knowledge in this way, and folks can still not listen to him or her, so their knowledge is basically wasted.

[Tj3]

Another rather hypocrite post by Tj3, who seems to be on a tour of trying to revive old arguments which he all clearly lost before on all points, and will loose again this time.

Nice try, Cred, but I am simply showing a consistency in your approach and the fact that you never have validated your belief that there is no God. If you believe that you can, then do so here and now.

First of all : I have repeatedly stated on this board in my posts that I am not a strong Atheist who insists that "God" does not exist. Because if I would suggest that, I would have to prove that. And I can't.

But you are a atheist, and have stated that over and over again. To be honest, I have never seen an atheist who believed more strongly that there is no God. Some equal perhaps, not no one more strongly. Your attacks on God are well known on this board.

Christians are totally unable and uncapable to prove the existence of "God". All they do is BELIEVE that "God" exists.

Again, both on this board and over the years, prof has been given to you. On the other board, you kept denying that you could see it, but at least here you acknowledge being able to see it, though you refuse to discuss it, and don't want anyone else to discuss it.

Than why should I have to prove that "God" does NOT exist ?

You keep asking for OSE (even atfter it has been given to you) for the beliefs of others.

I think that it is only fair that we turn the tables now and see your OSE for the belief that there is no God.

[Tj3]

Sorry that I missed that. Why did you choose that deliberately confusing handle? Seems something JJD would do ...

Cred,

Why would you assume motives on the part of another person for their userid. I am not confused by the two userids - they use much different avatars and have a completely different style.

Please show that you are able to treat ClassyT and others who disagree with you with due respect.

[Credendovidis]

... But you are a atheist, and have stated that over and over again....

Irrelevant Tommy : I have NEVER denied I am an Atheist.
And I also have frequently stated clearly what an Atheist is, but for you I will do that once again :

What is Atheism? / What is an Atheist?

ATHEISM

A THEISM

A = No(t) or Without

THEISM = Belief in "God" or "Gods"

ATHEISM = No or Without Belief in "God" or "Gods"

Atheism is NOT (only) disbelief in the existence of a "supreme being or beings".
Most Atheists have NO opinion on the existence of a "supreme being or beings".
Only a few "Strong" Atheists do that. Most "Soft/Weak" Atheists simply ignore the possibility of existence of a "supreme being or beings", as there is no (OSE) proof for that religious claim.

Now dear tommy : your attitude here and on all other boards shows one clear attitude : you and the "Truth" (Truth, the subject of this topic) are total opponents of each other.

Your format of "truth" is about religious claims without any OSE.
My format of "truth" is about factual and reality, all supported by OSE.

To be honest, I have never seen an atheist who believed more strongly that there is no God.

Incorrect : I do not believe that "God" does not exist. Neither do I believe that "God" exists. I do not care if that claimed-to-exist entity "God" exists or does not exist. I ignore that possibility. And for the reasons I refer you to my previous reply post of today here, where I already explained that.

Your attacks on God are well known on this board.

Another lie. I note that the rate you are lying seems to be increasing dramatically now.
It only shows that you have "no leg to stand on" as far as your wild claims are concerned!!

How sad!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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[wildandblue]

Cred is something of a one trick pony, TJ3. He basically has 1 idea and is searching for someone to listen to it. Get off his merrygoround!

[Credendovidis]

Truth is true whether you happen to believe in it or not.

The real point here is : how do we know that something is "true"?
Example : many people BELIEVE that "God" exists. But is that true??
Does "God" exist, and (how) can we prove that ?
Note : proof and OSE : an essential portion in "what is truth?" !

Cred .... basically has 1 idea and is searching for someone to listen to it.

That is your view. But that is not correct.
If I had to select a main view it would be :

BELIEVE what ever you like : you have my blessing for that. But if you CLAIM that what you BELIEVE is "true" or "the truth", you have to SUPPORT that view with OSE.

And as so far nobody has ever done that, I don't expect any change in that REALITY to occure!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


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[Tj3]

Irrelevant Tommy : I have NEVER denied I am an Atheist.

I never said that you did.

And I also have frequently stated clearly what an Atheist is, but for you I will do that once again

Are you reminding yourself? Everyone knows what an atheist is. You just choose to reword it to suit your purposes.

Your format of "truth" is about religious claims without any OSE.

So you keep claiming because you cannot refute it.

My format of "truth" is about factual and reality, all supported by OSE.

Really? Where is your OSE for your belief that there is no God?

[Tj3]

Cred is something of a one trick pony, TJ3. He basically has 1 idea and is searching for someone to listen to it. Get off his merrygoround!

I have known him for years. Once he makes a claim, whether it makes sense or not, he will defend it. Like atheism, evolution, the belief that magnetic compasses point west, the belief that high schools give out engineering licenses... He has come up with all sort of these claims over the years.

[classyT]

classyt I love your question, also I'm an old man (85) with no time or inclination to read all 4 pages of answers, so I'll just respond to your original question with my 2 cents worth:
Truth is true whether you happen to believe in it or not. When you think about it, we spend like 25 years or so growing up and learning, maybe 25 years as an independent adult, and the next 25 or so gradually forgetting stuff. So if we are "smart" for maybe a third of our lives, and our "smarts" were provided to us mostly by other people, our mentors and teachers and parents and friends and relatives; what exactly do we have to be so proud of? That we paid attention once in awhile when our dad or mom told us stuff? That we learned how to read so we could read a book or instruction manual or a speed limit sign? We will be remembered for who we were, not what we knew. A person can have a lot of knowledge in this way, and folks can still not listen to him or her, so their knowledge is basically wasted.

Wild,

I like that... 'truth is truth whether you happen to believe in it or not". You are 85? Funny how you picture people who post. I figured you to be around 37. NOT because you aren't wise.. just got that impression. Thanks for you thoughts.

[marriaget]

THERE IS NO PROOF THAT THERE IS A GOD.
NO PROOF. NO PROOF. NO TRUE REAL PROOF.
HE IS SOMETHING YOU CAN BELIEVE IN.

No one knows how anything started in the world, that's why there is the evolution theory... the Big Bang theory... and the god thing.

No proof of god. I still hope and pray there is a god, if there wasn't it would suck. Sadly there's no proof of a lot of things, too bad.
Stop arguing with me about there is good proof, no there is NO REAL proof.

[Tj3]

THERE IS NO PROOF THAT THERE IS A GOD.

I would not be able to put all the reasons for believing God is a fact in one message, but I did start several times providing evidence for one of the reasons on another thread. Here is one reason (reposted message from another thread):

----------------------------
As you well know, and as I established very early on in this discussion we have only two options, and that is that God created all that there is, or that it came about naturally. I have asked a number of questions now to which neither you nor your atheist friends could provide a plausible answer. If there is no possible means by which these events occurred naturally, then there is only once answer. God created and thus God exists. For each of these questions for which there is no natural answer, you have a proof of God. And there are many many more proofs that could yet be posted. The usual respond to these issues from non-Christians are insults, ad hominems, and ridicule - but no answer. That is in and of itself an admission that no answer for a natural explanation exists.

EYE : How about the eye. Can anyone give a plausible explanation as to how the eye came to be?

DNA : In every living or previously living cell, we find an operating system (O/S) program written which is more complex than any MAC or PC. In addition to the program, we find that every cell has the built in capability to read and interpret this programming language. And this goes back to the simplest, and, according to evolutionists, most ancient type of cell in existence.
If one found a PC with Windows O/S on it, or even a simple handheld with Windows CE O/S on it, it would automatically be taken to be proof positive of the existence of a capable and intelligent advanced designer. Do any atheists have a plausible explanation for how this advanced programming language, along with reader/interpreter came to be?

SIMPLE SINGLE CELL :
How did the simple cells come to be created?

POND SCUM : Pericles claimed that the answer to the question abive was that the single cells came from pond scum, which is in and itself a form of life - how did it come to be?

AUSTRALIAN BRUSH TURKEY : An interesting animal. It does not sit the eggs to incubate them, but rather creates a compost pile to provide the heat, which must be maintained at aorund 33 degress. The eggs are laid down at the precise depth and in a circle where that exact heat will be maintained. The turkey does not lay the eggs right away, but waits until the compost pile has reached the necessary temperature. The is requires that the brush turkey understand heat and decomposition, as well as how the heat radiates and be able to calculate the precise depth and pattern at which the necessary heat occurs. And it has to understand that this is all required to hatch chicks. To have gained this knowledge by chance would be impossible because there are too many variables to all the brush turkey to figure out the linkage between heat and hatching eggs and then precisely what heat is required and how to obtain it. The existence of God and his creation of this animal explains this.

MACAWS : Macaws are birds that feed on poisonous seeds, and in order to live, after they eat, they must eat a certain type of mud which neutralizes the poison.
How did this evolve? What is the natural explanation for this? The existence of God explains it.
----------------------------------------

NO PROOF. NO PROOF. NO TRUE REAL PROOF.
HE IS SOMETHING YOU CAN BELIEVE IN.

Yes, we believe in Him. But you have not told me how you are able to breathe. What is the source of life?

Denying that it is God because you don't believe in Him is circular reasoning. You already told us that you beliefs are entirely on faith with no basis to validate them, and I am willing to show you many different ways to validate that there is a God.

[Credendovidis]

THERE IS NO PROOF THAT THERE IS A GOD. NO PROOF. NO PROOF. NO TRUE REAL PROOF. HE IS SOMETHING YOU CAN BELIEVE IN.

Precisely ! All one can do is BELIEVE and have FAITH in the existence of "God".
So what you stated is TRUE!!

So anyone who states that he/she can prove the existence of "GOD" is wrong.
That is TRUE too!!

And I have always stated that you can only BELIEVE in the existence of "God".
And that is also TRUE!!

Stop arguing with me about there is good proof, no there is NO REAL proof.

And to close : that is TRUE too!!

:rolleyes: :D :rolleyes: :D :rolleyes: :D

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[Credendovidis]

I would not be able to put all the reasons for believing God is a fact in one message....

Reasons??
We always have been talking about proof - about OSE - for the existence of "GOD".
Look who is changing the goalposts here suddenly!

Now why would that be??

:D :D :D :D :D :D

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[Tj3]

Reasons ???
We always have been talking about proof - about OSE - for the existence of "GOD".
Look who is changing the goalposts here suddenly ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Don't stop so soon, Cred. The rest of the post that you quote from included some of the questions that provide evidence for God which you have not been able to answer for all these years.

Prove me wrong - post the answers!

Or do what I am others have asked - post your OSE for your belief that there is no God.

[inthebox]

On the Christian board yesterday, someone made a comment that their truth was different from someone elses truth. Just because we believe something..does it make it truth? How can we know if something is true.? Is there such thing as absolute truth?

Good question.

First question is why does truth matter?

If I do not believe in a God - and believe in only evolution, or the reductionist principal that we are just part of nature or only the product of organic chemicals, one without a soul, why does truth even matter. I would be the result of random chance - all my words, thoughts, and actions are determined by my genes or whatever culture's or society's genes.

We, even those who do not believe in God, believe that truth is good and lies and falsehoods are bad. Why is that?

Which brings another question. Why do we think of things as good and evil or truth or lies?

Do dogs or cats or monkeys or snails think the way we do? Are they concerned about absolute truth?

[marriaget]

Ha, wow.. these christians stick to their guns to the end... just like I do.

There is no proof behind anything, there is just no real proof.

How do we breathe? How is the world created? etc. etc...
No one knows, as I said before. There are many theory's... about these..
You believe god did it, and I believe... I just have no idea. Lol

I HOPE there is a god, and there is an afterlife... I can't believe you could be gone forever.. just gone... no more thinking no more anything. Jeez, that scares me.

Anyway, all I'm saying is there is no proofffff. Stop arguing, it's a belief no proof.

[inthebox]

So your saying it all belief. Your truth is your own. No one's is better than another, because there is no proof.

There is no absolute- only relativism?
Just floating in the wind to popular opinion or whatever tickles your fancy?

[Tj3]

There is no proof behind anything, there is just no real proof.

All you do is deny.

How do we breathe? How is the world created? etc. etc...
No one knows, as I said before. There are many theory's... about these..
You believe god did it, and I believe... I just have no idea. Lol

That is the point. There are only two ways that are even possible - natural or by means of an intelligent creator. No one has any feasible way by which it could have occurred naturally, so that leaves only one possible option.

There is proof. It is all around you. I posted more earlier.

[Credendovidis]

Reasons ??? We always have been talking about proof - about OSE - for the existence of "GOD".
Look who is changing the goalposts here suddenly ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! ! !

Don't stop so soon, Cred. The rest of the post that you quote from included some of the questions that provide evidence for God which you have not been able to answer for all these years.

You seriously suggest that I start debating with you on your list of evolution queries in a topic named "what is truth"??
Tommy : are you out of your mind?? You are the one who attacks almost everyone else when he/she posts anything that can be construed to be off-topic. That is done of course only if you disagree with the content of the post. However I note that your own last 10+ posts almost all were off-topic. How hypocrite!!

Prove me wrong - post the answers!

See above. I already suggested you several times to post your list where it belongs : on the evolution board.

Or do what I am others have asked - post your OSE for your belief that there is no God.

My belief? I hold no religious beliefs. And I NEVER claimed that "God" does not exist. You are fully aware of that, and therefore your question is a lie, it is hypocrite, and it is innuendo.

I have stated here and in other topics on this board many times : the existence of "God" has never been proved so far, and I do not think it ever will. Therefore there is no need to prove the negative : the non-existence of "God".
Besides that : I have no need to prove that negative. I accept that people BELIEVE that "God" exists, and respect their views. All I refute are the wild claims that the BELIEF in the existence of "God" is a reality.

This topic is about "what is Truth" ?
Tommy : so far you have provided many examples of hypocrite approach on such an interesting topic. I note that you mismanage and influence topics and try to force your religious views onto other more feeble minds. I hope they slowly start realizing who you really are, and what you try to do to them.

I wish you the best on your upcoming religious conferences and seminars. Do not forget to tell all there about your "performence" here on this board. How you completely fail to pass the Christian message, and how you try to force the Christian message through the troats of people by lying, innuendo, and lambasting those with other views.

===

This topic is about "What is truth?"
I did state in this topic before , and do again in this post :

Tommy's idea of "true" and "truth" seems to be quite different to the ideas of those who live with ratio, logic, knowledge, understanding, and tolerance.

For any intelligent person the words "true" or "truth" refer to the property of being in accordance with the actual state of affairs. And as the word "actual" refers to reality, it should refer to OSE as its only guideline.

Unfortunately in the religious field the words "true" or "truth" are used in and out of season to SUGGEST a level of accuracy, and in effect are used to provide some BOGUS VALIDITY to personal interpretations that are at best only covered by Subjective Supported Evidence.

Personal views are based on your interpretation of the truth (of the reality).
You however insist intolerantly that your views are factual, you refuse to accept that other ideas are of equal validity, and you seem to be ashamed for what you only can BELIEVE but can not can provide OSE for.

What a nice display of the difference between the linguistic meaning and the religious unsupported interpretation of the words "true" or "truth"!!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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[Credendovidis]

Your truth is your own.

Indeed : for everyone what appears to be "truth" seems to be different, as it is based on personal (mis) interpretation of reality.
The linguistic meaning of "truth" however refers to the property of being in accordance with the actual state of affairs. And as the word "actual" refers to reality, it should refer to OSE as its only guideline.

Unfortunately in the religious field the words "true" or "truth" are used in and out of season to SUGGEST a level of accuracy, and in effect are used to provide some BOGUS VALIDITY to personal interpretations that are at best only covered by Subjective Supported Evidence.

No one's is better than another, because their is no proof.

Indeed : no one is better because there is no proof. However those who realize this non-existence of proof (for instance for the existence of "God") and try to force their own opinion upon others are in fact dishonest. BELIEF is BELIEF and without DIRECT OSE , religious BELIEF is no more than a wild claim.

Their (sic) is no absolute- only relativism? Just floating in the wind to popular opinion or whatever tickles your fancy?

There is no "absolute". Unless you can provide OSE for the existence of anything that is really "absolute". If so : show us by starting a new topic on "absolute".

:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

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