[J_9]

Has anyone heard of the National ID and "the mark of the beast"? What are your thoughts?

WorldNetDaily: Is coming national ID
'mark of the beast'?

[Fr_Chuck]

Since the mark of the Beast would have to be International it would not merely be a card for one nation.

And honesty we already have basically national id's. Each state has an id card, drivers licence, which are all in a national data base.

As a person who was a police officer in a major city before I will say when you stop people on the street and they have no ID ( or say they don't) you often let dangous and wanted people go because you can't ID them.

People use different names, and so on. A day to prove who people are is really needed.

The mark of the best when one reads it, it is a mark upon the forehead and upon the hands, the forehead has always stood for what we think and the hands for the work we do.

So the mark is most likely the world thinking and working on the ideas of evil.

[J_9]

That is exactly the way I read it. Thank you for making it make sense.

[RickJ]

I would not equate the two at all.

[Fr_Chuck]

Please understand every generation has had their idea. And really we all already have a national ID card, one that you can't even work, have a bank account without and more, it is called a social security card,

If any "one thing" from our government fit the idea of a mark, it would be that card and number. It fits the idea that you can not work or buy without it.

[magprob]

Actually, Great Briton is still in the process of issuing their national ID cards and the United States is going to next year I believe... as soon as the Senate passes it, which is no problem since as you can see, no one here knows about it! With this new system, the card will be your driver licence, bank guarantee card and a prerequsite for employment. So, if you do not accept it, no work, no eat! The thing is, I am just simply amazed at the amount of good folks that don't even know this is happening and would they try to stop it any way? I asked the ladies down at the DMV if it would be coming soon and they just stated that they hoped not because of the great amount of work it will cause them! :(

National ID Cards Won't Stop Terroism or Illegal Immigration -- Dr. Ron Paul

If you read this web page and still do not think we are heading for the mark of the beast, tell me why. As you can see, everything is happening for a reason. That is some mighty fine planning and execution by the dark powers that be. Notice the demonstrations in the streets by hispanics wanting to take back the southwestern U.S. When fear is in control, anything is accepted to stop the threat! Ignorance of course, is the best means of control!

[Starman]

The prophet Daniel received two visions of the march of world powers. One was of a statue whose parts were of different metals. The other was of wild beasts which represented governments as they emerged on the world stage. The reason that the mark of the wild beast that the apostle John is shown is seen as being one which indicates political support of worldly governments in preference to God's Kingdom is because the wild beast mentioned in Revelation is a composite representation of the beasts mentioned by Daniel.

The Mark of the Beast


BTW

Both the statue and the beast representing the world's governments are shown as having God's disapproval and ultimately meet the same fate.

[ScottGem]

This is one of the reasons I don't believe in religion. In my opinion this is just carrying interpretations of passages in the Bible to extremes. Its conspiracy theory run rampant. And it's a crock...

Anyone who wants to see gremlins in the woodwork can find them if they look hard enough.

[mr.yet]

REAL ID goes way beyond that. It's a huge power-grab by the federal government over the states' systems for issuing driver's licenses.:mad:

One of my fears is that this new uniform driver's license will bring a new level of "show me your papers" echoes of Hitler, checks by the government. Already you can't fly without an ID, even though no one has ever explained how that ID check makes airplane terrorism any harder.


New Hampshire agrees does not want National ID.

New Hampshire House Passes Anti-REAL ID Bill. The New Hampshire House of Representatives has just passed HB 1582, an act "prohibiting New Hampshire from participating in a national identification card system." If the measure passes the state Senate, New Hampshire will be the first state to reject the REAL ID Act, which sets federal standards for state driver's licenses, essentially making them national ID cards. According to a recent survey (pdf) of state motor vehicle administrators, the costs of implementation have been vastly underestimated by the federal government, which initially put the total price at $100 million. Pennsylvania alone would spend $85 million on REAL ID, the survey found. (Apr. 17)

Since when the Federal Government has the right to dictate to an individual or to a Sovereign state, their own form of government is the only government. I am under to assumption that the government is to help the people not hinder them.

What happen to the Bill of Rights? Does the Federal Government obey the Constitution? NO!

We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to “ourselves and our posterity,” do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The National ID Act is more of the FEDs control over everyone and everything. People must stand up and tell the government you don't want it. It is your right to tell them.

Amendment I

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Take a stand people, email, call or write your congressman or representative and tell THEM -NO NATIONAL ID!



Social SecurityCard was never to be use for Id. In 1977, the Carter Administration reiterated that the SSN was not to become an identifier

[Starman]

The beast is said to arise from the sea.

Isaiah 57:20
But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.

Another Gremlin?

[mr.yet]

Thomas Jefferson on Politics & Government

19. Separation of Powers:

Federal and State

The Federative Principle was the mechanism introduced by the Founders that made possible a republic spread over a vast continent. In addition, by dividing governmental power into co-equal, independent responsibilities, each branch of government might serve as a check on the other and thus prevent either one from undermining the safety of the public liberty.

"Our country is too large to have all its affairs directed by a single government. Public servants at such a distance, and from under the eye of their constituents, must, from the circumstance of distance, be unable to administer and overlook all the details necessary for the good government of the citizens; and the same circumstance, by rendering detection impossible to their constituents, will invite public agents to corruption, plunder and waste." --Thomas Jefferson to Gideon Granger, 1800. ME 10:167

"I believe the States can best govern our home concerns, and the General Government our foreign ones." --Thomas Jefferson to William Johnson, 1823. ME 15:450

Thomas Jefferson saw this over 200 years ago, control of the masses by a single government is a dictatorship, not a republic!

Call your congressman and representative tell them NO NATIONAL ID>

[ScottGem]

REAL ID goes way beyond that. It's a huge power-grab by the federal government over the states' systems for issuing driver's licenses.:mad:

One of my fears is that this new uniform driver's license will bring a new level of "show me your papers" echoes of Hitler, checks by the government. Already you can't fly without an ID, even though no one has ever explained how that ID check makes airplane terrorism any harder.

I'm not saying I support the REAL ID, but I am seeing paranoia here. Ever been stopped for a moving violation? "Show me your papers" ALREADY exists. We are CONSTANTLY having to prove our identity. Yesterday I purchased something with a credit card that had a smudged signature so the clerk asked for additional ID. Having a secure, consistent way to prove identity MIGHT be a blessing.

The thing that bothers me most is the point about how much this will cost states to comply. I'm not sure that the current systems in place aren't sufficient and I am sure that anything that will cost taxpayers more money needs to be rethought.

[mr.yet]

One already has to answer to the state in which you live, why does the Federal Government want control over Driver License? They don't need control of the Driver License that is purely a State function.

[ScottGem]

One already has to answer to the state inwhich you live, why does the Federal Government want control over Driver License? They dont need control of the Driver License that is purely a State function.

Well I can give one for instance where it would be advantageous to the citizens to have some uniform standards for driver licenses. This goes back several years to when NYS licenses were not Photo ID and had 2 parts; the license and a record of convictions. What happened was I lost my license and didn't even realize it until some nice person mailed the license only part back to me. I went to DMV explained what happened and they told me to apply for a replacement which I did. Several months later I received a "Failure to appear" summons from NJ. I called and explained what happened but NJ refused to accept anything other than my appearance. So I went down to Trenton and the officer who issued the ticket was unable to identify me as the driver.

My point is that a NJ State Trooper should have seen that 1) the document offered was not a full NYS license and 2) that it was not authorized to drive a semi (which was the vehicle ticketed). With national standards like photo ID, license qualifications etc. The guy who stole the part of my license to use would not have goteen away with it.

[mr.yet]

We don't need the Feds to control us by use o a National ID, It is bad enough that my right to travel on public roads is controlled by state government. Any picture ID issue by any state would be sufficient.

I personally believe in the Common Law rights that are part of the Constitution and Bill of Rights, Federal Government is out of control, since when must I answer to the Feds about my common law rights.

Quote Am Jur:
The "RIGHT" of the Citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, by horse-drawn carriage, wagon, or automobile, is NOT a mere PRIVILEGE which may be permitted or prohibited at will, but a "COMMON RIGHT" which he has under his right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Under this constitutional guarantee one may, therefore, under normal conditions, travel at his inclination along the public highways or in public places, and while conducting himself in an orderly and decent manner, neither interfering with, not disturbing another's "RIGHTS," he will be protected, not only in his person, but in his safe conduct. See: 11 American Jurisprudence 1st. Constitutional Law, 329, page 1123

[magprob]

In reply to starman's post: As not to take it literally or strech it to extremes, I'd say the world is going to be taken over by a sea monster! That's why there are so many programs on the subject lately. The dark powers that be are getting us ready for the great horror to come! When a giant squid tenticle smashes through your window and carries your children out to sea, then you will know it is true! :)

[ScottGem]

My problem here is with the automatic assumption that such an ID constitutes control. Our government has a system of checks and balances that has pretty much worked well.

While I don't dispute that, in some systems, use of such a national ID would constitute a greater attempt of control of the citizenry, I don't think that's the case here. I think, if done right, it could provide greater security and more protection for the individual.

[Starman]

In reply to starman's post: As not to take it literally or strech it to extremes, I'd say the world is going to be taken over by a sea monster! Thats why there are so many programs on the subject lately. The dark powers that be are getting us ready for the great horror to come! When a giant squid tenticle smashes through your window and carries your children out to sea, then you will know it is true! :)

Very funny! LOL

Fallacy: Appeal to Ridicule
Description and examples of Appeal to Ridicule fallacy.. . of "reasoning" is fallacious because mocking... fallacious argument) can make it reasonable to reject the claim. One form of this line of reasoning is known as a "reductio ad absurdum...
Fallacy: Appeal to Ridicule

Excerpt:

Milton Terry (1898)
"From these quotation it is apparent that there is scarcely an expression employed in Matthew and Luke which has not been taken from the Old Testament Scriptures.
"Such apocalyptic forms of speech are not to be assumed to convey in the New Testament a meaning different from that which they bear in the Hebrew Scriptures. They are part and parcel of the genius of prophetic language. The language of Isaiah 13:10, is used in a prophecy of the overthrow of Babylon. That of Isaiah 34:4, refers to the desolation of Edom. The ideal of "the Son of man coming in the clouds" is taken from a prophecy of the Messianic kingdom, which kingdom, as depicted in Daniel 7:13,14, is no other than the one symbolized in the same book by a stone cut out of the mountain (Dan. 2:34,35). It is the same kingdom of heaven which Jesus liken to a grain of mustard seed and to the working of leaven in the meal (Matt. 13:31-33). The other citations we have given above show with equal clearness how both Jesus and his disciples were won't to express themselves in language which must have been very familiar to those who from childhood heard the law and the prophets "read in the synagogues every Sabbath" (Acts 13:27; 15:21). A strictly literal interpretation of such pictorial modes of thought leads only to absurdity. Their import must be studied in the light of the numerous parallels in the Old Testament writers,.

BTW

The lady who always threatened us with eternal torture if we didn't attend church understood the complete book of Revelation literally in the way you describe. She would tell us that the beasts spoken of in that book of Revelation were real animals which God would assigned to torment the infidels prior to their being sent to be burned alive forever.

[magprob]

Starman, your point is well taken and I posted that to show that it is. I don't fear what I know to be the great tribulation our planet is heading for. GOD has always seen to it that the sparrows and me had plenty. So it will also be when the socio-economical system and all the religons created by man fail and the great moment of truth arrives. As I said, I have always been blessed and well taken care of and I guess the reason for that is that I know Jesus Christ is the son of GOD and my personal savior. Everything else is just here to amuse me! I will not accept the national ID card or the mark of the beast or whatever you want to call it. If it is as Christians say, that it will be my demise... so be it. I am ready for some new sceanery anyway.

[phillysteakandcheese]

Don't gloss over the fact that your Social Insurance number amounts to a National ID. That number is tied into almost everything...

Besides which - It will always be possible to "drop off the system" if you are willing to live your life a certain way to avoid leaving significant traces.

Wouldn't most skip tracer's tell you that there are always some people that manage to just drop off the planet?