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I would like to replace my 2-prong (ungrounded) outlets with 3-prong (grounded) ones. I didn't see a ground wire when I removed the outlet.
How can I replace an ungrounded outlet with a grounded one? Also, how can I find out if my outlet box is grounded?
Well, you can't unless you can pull a ground wire to the receptacle box. If the box is metal as well as the cable some folks will use that to get a ground but an electrician wouldn't. You can install a GFCI which will accept a 3 prong but it won't be grounded, just ground faulted.
Get a tester and check if you have ground. If you don't, you can run a green wire to cold water pipe.
please back-up your comments with code.Quote:
Originally Posted by evolkmar
It is OK and code to do that yung boy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Washington1
Please back up your comments with code.Quote:
Originally Posted by evolkmar
Thank you!
I agree with Washington, please provide the exact code section that allows this practice as suggested:
Since there was a request for backup, and your vague and condescending answer lacked any details, let's shorten this process, look at NEC 2008 Section 250.130 (C) , and I defy you to find that attaching anywhere to a cold water line is allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by evolkmar
And remember that per Section 250.50 refers to 250.52 (A) 1, that describes a metal underground water line in contact 10 feet or longer in earth can be used as a grounding electrode, and only allows attachment of any grounding conductor within 5 feet of the interior portion of the pipe.
Now, what if your suggestion was to someone having a typical well system using black plastic pipe serving the home, and the only metal pipe was inside, connected to the plastic pipe.
Or, even they only had plastic pipe thruout the home, you didn't even suggest metal pipe.
Don't even suggest that a metal pipe is ground because it gets connected to various usage items in the home.
I think I have sufficiently provided backup to cause your suggestion to be refuted, please provide backup for your suggestion.
Did you ever knew that water are coductor? If not I dare you to touch live wire with one hand and water (in plastic) with the other hand. I hope I made my point.
But never the less, when I said pipe I meant copper or galvnised that whole house is the same and not mixed with ABS, PVC, any Plastic,
Or just put a groung rod.
No one says water isn't a conductor but running a green wire to a water pipe is not code that I have read. Some folks may do this as a jury rigged approached but it is not safe. Listen to the electricians here, quote the code if you still think you are right.
Exactly! And thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by tkrussell
I'm so sick of people given me lip when they can't put forward facts!
People: WE DO THIS FOR A LIVING, AND SOME OF US LIVE THIS. Which means: Don't run your trap if you can't back it up!!
I am not sure what your point is here:
Hold a live wire in one hand and a plastic pipe containing water in the other? So? What is the problem? I lost your point.Quote:
Originally Posted by evolkmar
OK State that, but you did not address the well issue, and if the cold water pipe is grounded as being used as the grounding electrode, and only within five feet of entry into the building.Quote:
Originally Posted by evolkmar
Arbitrarily just driving ground rods is not the answer for an equipment ground for a receptacle. A ground rod DOES NOT establish an equipment ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by evolkmar
To answer the question to Jackofall, what you are allowed to do is install a green wire same size as the circuit back to one of several locations, now here is where it will get confusing to you.
My other point will be if you can run a ground wire from a 2 wire receptacle, why not run a new 3 wire cable and avoid trying to understand the following?
1. Attach to the grounding electrode system.
Do you have any idea what this is?
This IS NOT attaching anywhere on any metal cold water pipe in the home.
If you have metal water pipe serving the home, this is one electrode, as long as ten feet of pipe is in contact with the earth. You can attach to this pipe no farther than 5 feet away from point of enty into the home.
If you have a ground rod system, then attach to the ground rod.
2.Attach to an accessible point on the grounding electrode conductor.
This is the ground wire leaving your panel or meter and connects to the water line or ground rod.
3 & 4. Connect to the equipment ground bar OR the system neutral bar inside a panel or meter.
#3 & #4 requires you to enter the live panel, and forget about entering the meter.
So, now you see why ,if you can go through all the trouble of running a separate equipment ground wire, it would be better for many reasons to run new cable to this outlet.
Do not do as suggested by evolkmar, by connecting anywhere to any cold water pipe, only at the water pipe entraance and only if it is a grounding electrode, and never, never, never, just drive a separate ground rod to act as an equipment ground.
Actually pure water doesn't conduct electricity very well. It's resistivity can be 10E15 ohm-cm or so. A big number. The problem is contaminants in the water and the salt on your skin will make the water conductive.
PVC is a good insulator too, so touching PVC and a live 120 V live conductor isn't going to even give you a tingle. I'd do it in front of you to prove a point. I'll even stick my tongue on it after cleaning the pipe.
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