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Home > Home & Garden > Electrical & Lighting   »   A Lot of questions

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Old Jun 16, 2005, 07:33 PM
fishkeeper
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A Lot of questions
Hello

I just found and joined this place and have a few questions.
From reading through here a little,I'm thinking I'll get better anwsers here then locally.

First - I am NOT an electrican (my questions will show that ) so excuse anything that may seem odd.

Ok
On to my situation and questions.

I'm in the process of renovating my garage and makeing it a fishroom (place to keep my fish).Dealing with local electricians has been anything but educational or fun. I either hear "would be cheaper" or some type of complaint as soon as I mention fish or water.
So I got to the point where it seemed to make more sense to start doing things myself.At this point my electricity has been approved and will be connected as soon as I make an appointment - but not being an electrician I figured it safer to hold off haveing it connected (from my box to the pole) until I'm totally done. The electrical company where I live said there no codes or code issue for me to worry about and add whatever else I'd like
Not wanting to burn the place down before I use it,I ended up here

If it makes a difference - I have 12/3 wire (I was told bigger then needed wouldn't cause any problems) - 100amp main service (maybe 200 by fall)

From the limited understanding - I have (I think) come to the conclusion that my 15 amp circuits can "safely" run about 1400 watts consistantly.And my 20 amp circuits can handle about 1800 watts consistantly. Is that correct?


Also wondering if it matters how many outlets I use on a circuit? For example - If I put 12 outlets on a 15 amp curcuit but and only draw 1200watts will this work? Safely?
Along the same note - if I use 12 GFI outlets ,would there be any differance? Or do the little led's on GFI's consume enough power to make a difference useing a bunch in one circuit?
---- I was told just use 1 GFI at the begging of the circuit but I'd rather use all gfi's just to be on the safe side. Seems all local electricians are interested in is whats cheaper.
Each outlet will be in close proximity to water is the reason I'd rather use all GFI's.


Last question.
I have a heater system that is 6000 watts and the seller advised me that my best bet would be to have an electrican hardwire it into 3 - 20 amp circuits. Local electrican (again with a "cheaper" anwser ) said I could get the model with plugs and wire two outlets to 30 amp circuits to plug it in. Is there an obvious advantage to one way over the other? or even a reason to consider useing 30amp circuits?

Thanks and sorry for the long post, just trying to clear up some last minute things before I get the power turned on.

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Old Jun 16, 2005, 08:39 PM   #2  
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From the limited understanding - I have (I think) come to the conclusion that my 15 amp circuits can "safely" run about 1400 watts consistantly.And my 20 amp circuits can handle about 1800 watts consistantly. Is that correct?


Also wondering if it matters how many outlets I use on a circuit? For example - If I put 12 outlets on a 15 amp curcuit but and only draw 1200watts will this work? Safely?
Along the same note - if I use 12 GFI outlets ,would there be any differance? Or do the little led's on GFI's consume enough power to make a difference useing a bunch in one circuit?
---- I was told just use 1 GFI at the begging of the circuit but I'd rather use all gfi's just to be on the safe side. Seems all local electricians are interested in is whats cheaper.
Each outlet will be in close proximity to water is the reason I'd rather use all GFI's.


Last question.
I have a heater system that is 6000 watts and the seller advised me that my best bet would be to have an electrican hardwire it into 3 - 20 amp circuits. Local electrican (again with a "cheaper" anwser ) said I could get the model with plugs and wire two outlets to 30 amp circuits to plug it in. Is there an obvious advantage to one way over the other? or even a reason to consider useing 30amp circuits?
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Old Jun 17, 2005, 06:38 AM   #3  
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To begin with...
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishkeeper
Hello

I just found and joined this place and have a few questions.
From reading through here a little,I'm thinking I'll get better anwsers here then locally.

First - I am NOT an electrican (my questions will show that ) so excuse anything that may seem odd.

Ok
On to my situation and questions.

I'm in the process of renovating my garage and makeing it a fishroom (place to keep my fish).Dealing with local electricians has been anything but educational or fun. I either hear "would be cheaper" or some type of complaint as soon as I mention fish or water.
So I got to the point where it seemed to make more sense to start doing things myself.At this point my electricity has been approved and will be connected as soon as I make an appointment - but not being an electrician I figured it safer to hold off haveing it connected (from my box to the pole) until I'm totally done. The electrical company where I live said there no codes or code issue for me to worry about and add whatever else I'd like
Not wanting to burn the place down before I use it,I ended up here

If it makes a difference - I have 12/3 wire (I was told bigger then needed wouldn't cause any problems) - 100amp main service (maybe 200 by fall)

From the limited understanding - I have (I think) come to the conclusion that my 15 amp circuits can "safely" run about 1400 watts consistantly.And my 20 amp circuits can handle about 1800 watts consistantly. Is that correct?


Also wondering if it matters how many outlets I use on a circuit? For example - If I put 12 outlets on a 15 amp curcuit but and only draw 1200watts will this work? Safely?
Along the same note - if I use 12 GFI outlets ,would there be any differance? Or do the little led's on GFI's consume enough power to make a difference useing a bunch in one circuit?
---- I was told just use 1 GFI at the begging of the circuit but I'd rather use all gfi's just to be on the safe side. Seems all local electricians are interested in is whats cheaper.
Each outlet will be in close proximity to water is the reason I'd rather use all GFI's.


Last question.
I have a heater system that is 6000 watts and the seller advised me that my best bet would be to have an electrican hardwire it into 3 - 20 amp circuits. Local electrican (again with a "cheaper" anwser ) said I could get the model with plugs and wire two outlets to 30 amp circuits to plug it in. Is there an obvious advantage to one way over the other? or even a reason to consider useing 30amp circuits?

Thanks and sorry for the long post, just trying to clear up some last minute things before I get the power turned on.
...you say your electricity has been approved and the electrical company said there were no codes or code issues? Who approved your wiring? The electric utility is not the final say in residential wiring, your building inspector is! Did you have the wiring approved by the inspector or even have a permit pulled?

Your assumptions are correct and I know of no limitations on number of outlets per branch except increasing the chances of a wiring error and the voltage drop due to the splicing of the run in each outlet box. As for the GFI outlets this is; as they say...”More expensive”, but no harm done. If you really want to be safe add a GFI breaker to your panel to protect all outlets at the source and then use GFIs at each outlet. Just make sure the breaker can’t nuisance trip from normal moist conditions. This is assuming the service panel is in the garage, of course.

BTW...12/3 with ground is permitted to handle 20 amp, 240VAC service. Add a couple of smoke alarms on dedicated circuits and be sure to install a fire extinguisher! Good luck. One final note...if you have a wiring diagram could you post it for the forum to review?
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Old Jun 17, 2005, 07:48 AM   #4  
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One more point. If you go with the seperate GFI outlets like you want to, if one ever trips, it will be easier to locate and correct the problem. the price of GFI outlets has dropped drasticlly in the last 25 years.
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Old Jun 17, 2005, 02:38 PM   #5  
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One Circuit---One GFCI
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Old Jun 17, 2005, 02:49 PM   #6  
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You have several questions. Let me go thru them one at a time and hopefully add to the answers you have received already.

First off,I suggest you get back in touch with Labman,seems, accidentally, all he did on his first post was copy paste your questions, and he may not realize he did not include any answers. I am sure he has some good info he wanted to share, but somehow msitakenly did not include his comments in the post.

Electricians usually offer inexpensive solutions because home owers ask for the less expensive installation. And a good electrician will know how to do a safe installation without adding unnecessary cost. A real good electrician will listen to the customer and offer a better installation, of course for more money, but in an effort to get the customer what he really needs.

Seems you are interested in a better than standard installation due to the purpose of the room. Flickits suggestions about the GFI breaker and at the outlets is a four star installation, offering protection at both locations, and Labman's suggetion of limiting protection at each outlet wll be easier to trace problems.

What I have to offer is, code requires GFI outlets in specfic areas of the home susceptible to shock hazard during general use by anyone living in the home, sinks, kitchens, basements, garages, and outdoors. However, this room may be under your control, for your use, and is for a specific purpose, aquariums. What I am asking you to consider is , how many tanks, and how many fish. If a GFI tripping may cause the tank pump to be down for an extended period of time, is it possible to loose any fish?

Even thou the tanks contain water, GFI protection of lights and pumps in aquariums is not required by code. If you are concerned for your safety, I certainly agree with GFI, but, if there is any chance you may loose rare or expensive fish, GFI is not recommended or required. This is your call. you can shut off the breaker when you need to clean the tanks to keep yourself safe, but have no fear of loosing fish if a GFI trips and your not around for a while to catch it and find fish floating at the top of the tank.

Like Flickit says, no code or permits? I sure would like to know where in the USA codes are not required. Maybe you just asked the wrong person about codes required in your town.

You are correct, a 15 amp circuit can handle 1440 watts continuously, which means more than three hours, and a 20 amp can actually handle 1920 watts. Your design of 12 outlets for 1200 watts is perfect. There is no maximum number of outets on a residential circuit, but you seem to undertand, it is not the amount of outlets, but the total load a circuit can handle.

Without knowing more detail on the heater, one advantage to having 3-20 amp circuits, is that if you have a problem with one, at least the other two are still operating. There should be no reason you need to hard wire the unit if you can use 3 20 amp cords, no longer than six feet, and have each plug into its own circuit and outlet. And the plugs can serve as disconnects at the units.

I hope I have added some information to help you.
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Old Aug 22, 2005, 09:22 PM   #7  
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As was stated before there is no limit on the number of outlets in residential work but if it's commercial each outlet is figured as 180 VA...if I remember correctly...but don't quote me
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