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Home > Home & Garden > Electrical & Lighting   »   GFI mystery

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#1  
Old Sep 13, 2007, 07:18 PM
tzekl
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GFI mystery

Single power source being run into bathroom.

I wired a standard receptacle in a double gang box. From this I took power for a light fixture (with a separate switch) and a ceiling fan (with a separate switch).

Worked fine without a hitch but I had one white and one black on each side of switch. So I think I have done something backwards. Mind you, everything worked.

This is where the GFI comes in.....I wired the GFI exactly as I had the standard receptacle and got the green light on receptacle but no power anywhere. I've tried a few different combinations but nothing works.

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Old Sep 13, 2007, 07:47 PM   #2  
KeepItSimpleStupid
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See this:

http://www.passandseymour.com/pdf/U013-U020.pdf

GFI's are wired differently depending if they protect the downstream devices as well.
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Old Sep 13, 2007, 09:02 PM   #3  
Flying Blue Eagle
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TZEKI, INside the box the gfi recept. came in is a piece of paper, on it showes hoe to wire a gfi recept. KeepIt simplestupid was right if you didnt get one with the gfi go back to store and get one theres no charge for the instructions
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Old Sep 13, 2007, 09:16 PM   #4  
KeepItSimpleStupid
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FBE:

Are you related to Youdee? http://www.udel.edu/PR/UDaily/2004/youdee090203.JPG

or the Blue hen Delaware State Bird - Blue Hen Chicken
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Old Sep 14, 2007, 01:32 AM   #5  
tkrussell
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Can you describe what you have in more detail?

You mention standard outlet, then a switch with black and white wires, then a GFI. What exactly do you have and how is it connected?

IS a breaker tripping? is there another GFI elsewhere in the building that may be tripping?
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Old Sep 14, 2007, 04:00 AM   #6  
tzekl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tkrussell
Can you describe what you have in more detail?

You mention standard outlet, then a switch with black and white wires, then a GFI. What exactly do you have and how is it connected?

IS a breaker tripping? is there another GFI elsewhere in the building that may be tripping?


Breaker is not tripping. What I have is power coming into double gang box where I have GFI and a switch for the fan. Also in the room is a switch for the lights - switch is in a single gang box within 1' of double gang box.

I have one wire running from light to single gang box. I have one wire running from fan to double gang box.
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Old Sep 14, 2007, 07:08 AM   #7  
donf
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Tzekl,

I am not an electrician, nor do I have the NEC Code book yet, so I would immediately defer to TK's responses. Prior to doing any work on the wiring you need to turn the supply breaker OFF. Working on live wires can get you dead or severly injured. Please don't try to prove how easy it is to kill yourself. Of course if you list me as your only benificary, I might reconsider my prior statement.


Before I start making any suggestions I need to know how you wired all switches and outlets.

I am first concerned about the amperage of the source load line (black) at the panel box. If it is 15 Amp and you are using a 20 amp GFCI, you may have to pull a new 20 amp line from the panel box to the bathroom.

In general, (I believe) you should bring your source power to the light box. You would then run what's called a switch loop to the switch and tie the source to the black of the switch loop. At the switch as well as at the ceiling box you place a small amount of electrical tape around the white insulated wire from the switch. You do this so you know that this particular wire is no longer a return wire, it is a Hot or Load wire. Then you connect the white wire with tape on it to the black wire of the light fixture. And the other end of the marked white line to the other end of the switch.

That gets you your first light working. Now, Is everything supposed to work off of this one power source? If yes, have you tried to reset the GFCI outlet? Also with a meter or a circuit tester, let verify that you actually have power to the GFCI outlet.

Do you understand how a GFCI Outlet works and what it does? There is a very good book called "Wiring Simplified", put out by Black and Decker, which is available at Lowes, Home Depot , Barnes and Noble, Borders. This will explain how to plan your new circuit and how to correctly wire the circuit to meet the NEC Code.



A GFCI outlet uses a small chip in the outlet to induce a signal across the return line.
If the signal remains balanced, every thing works fine. However, if the signal changes, and the amperqage climbs, the outlet opens.

The outlet chip is looking for two conditions:

1) Hot Fault - The source power gets crossconnected to a return or ground line or a short exists.

2) Ground Fault - the signal induced across the neutral or ground wire changes because the amperqage of the neutral iws higher than the amperage on the ground side. The amperage I am speaking about is that of the induced signal by the GFCI's chip, not the circuit's amperage.
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Old Sep 14, 2007, 12:59 PM   #8  
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Donf, can you provide backup to your description of how a GFI works?
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Old Sep 14, 2007, 01:31 PM   #9  
KeepItSimpleStupid
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I'll provide a reference to how a GFCI works:

http://cache.national.com/ds/LM/LM1851.pdf

donf's description is not quite right.
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Old Sep 14, 2007, 06:55 PM   #10  
tkrussell
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Kiss, I agree, but since he made the statements I would assume backup can be provided, as there is so much accurate info available from reliable sources on the net.
This action may give a chance to learn and make necessary corrections.
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