Single power source being run into bathroom.

I wired a standard receptacle in a double gang box. From this I took power for a light fixture (with a separate switch) and a ceiling fan (with a separate switch).

Worked fine without a hitch but I had one white and one black on each side of switch. So I think I have done something backwards. Mind you, everything worked.

This is where the GFI comes in.....I wired the GFI exactly as I had the standard receptacle and got the green light on receptacle but no power anywhere. I've tried a few different combinations but nothing works.

donf

TK - Kiss,

The source of my description is from the Code Check site. I'll get the actual address later it's on my laptop and I'm now supposed to be cleaning the garage.

What I described was the working of a GFCI outlet, not a GFCI Breaker.

What errors did I make do I don't repeat the mistakes? KISS, are you a licensed master electrician? I ask so I know who to accept answers from without question.

Don

tkrussell

All GFI devices monitor the flow of current in both conductors of a circuit and trip if the difference between both are at the setting of the GFI, 5 milliamps for standard products for personnel protection, 30 milliamps for equipment protection, they do not send out a signal.

Jack of all trades, master of one here. Formerly had E1 Master License in two states,only one now, let one go, why spend money each year in a state I am not planning on returning to. Certified Electrical Inspector in that state for life, thou. Go figure.

Flying Blue Eagle

HEY: KEEPITSIMPLESTUPID, NO I am not related to (youdee )or the Blue HEN, DELEWQARE State Bird OR THE BLUE HEN BIRD ARE YOU???? :::

donf

TK - Kiss,

I got the operation of a GFCI outlet off of the Code Check site. Here is the link. www.codecheck.com/gfci_principal.htm

Pleased let me know if I misinterpted any thing.

Don

donf

TK,

When you say two conductors are you referring to the Neutral and Ground?

tkrussell

The description states as quoted:

"The GFCI operates by sensing the difference between the currents in the Hot and Neutral conductors.".

No where can I find the words induce a signal across the return line.

Clearly you had misinterpreted the description of how a GFI device operates.

Hope this helps in clearing up this matter.

And yes, the two conductors are the hot and neutral.

donf

To detect a Neutral to Ground fault there is a second transformer (left toroid in the illustration below) placed upstream of the H-G sense transformer (in the illustration above). A small drive signal is injected via the 200 T winding which induces equal voltages on the H and N wires passing through its core.

Inducing voltages in the two lines would change the waveform of the line. The term "Signal" means that the outside signal (voltage) is something that can be read. Its the same principle used in AM radio carrier signals. The carrier wave is generated and the signal is superimposed on the carrier wave.

tkrussell

That signal is internal to the device, it does not leave the device. A signal is not sent out, or "induced" onto the branch circuit conductors.

KeepItSimpleStupid

My turn:

This is mostly wrong:

A GFCI outlet uses a small chip in the outlet to induce a signal across the return line.
If the signal remains balanced, every thing works fine. However, if the signal changes, and the amperqage climbs, the outlet opens.

The outlet chip is looking for two conditions:

1) Hot Fault - The source power gets crossconnected to a return or ground line or a short exists.

2) Ground Fault - the signal induced across the neutral or ground wire changes because the amperqage of the neutral iws higher than the amperage on the ground side. The amperage I am speaking about is that of the induced signal by the GFCI's chip, not the circuit's amperage.

A GFI outlet will find the following faults:

1) An unintentional current path between L1 and ground determined by the difference in current flowing in the N and L1 leads.
2) A grounded neutral fault.

An outlet generally knows nothing about overloads.

(1) is detected in a very easy way. You wind the current carrying conductors on a small transformer such that their induced flux cancel. You place a sense winding on the same transformer. A measurable signal will result when the currents become unbalanced. It's looking for about 6 mA.

2) is detected a little harder. L1 and N are wound on a core, but this time a 120 Hz signal is induced in L1 and N such that the signal would normally cancel and the load would not see it. If N of the load is connected to ground, it becomes impossible to modulate what would normally be N. If this modulation occurs before the the transformer designed to detect (1), the modulation can be seen on it's sense leads too. The modulation on L1 would be seen for as long as it took the GFI receptacle to respond.

KeepItSimpleStupid

A little about me: AAS in Electronics Technology 4.0 GPA. BAS in Engineering technology, 2 YRS of work in an EE degree. I built a computer out of small scale integration around the time the 4004 came out (Think the Texas Instruments SR10 calculator era). It could sort numbers in ascending and descending order depending on the microcode.

My strengths are in Electronics instrumentation and electrical measurements of semiconductors, Mechanical design and construction and computer programming skills. I also posses machine shop skills. I've even designed instrumentation from scratch. Semiconductor measurements can involve currents as low as 1E-12 Amps (1 picoamp) at 100 volts DC.

I'm capable of working on X-ray sets with 100 KV, 0.1 A power supples, Electron Beam systems with 15 KV at 2A (30 KW) power supplies and 1KW Tube RF generators without killing myself so a wimpy thing like a micowave doesn't bother me either.

I've worked on TV's, Radios, both tube and transitor before age 15. At 15, I removed the heads from my car, upolstered the seats, ported the intake manifold, rebuilt the carb, retro-fitted electronic ignition and got 18 mpg on a 6 cyl 1965 ford. Not bad for that time frame. I rebuilt lawn mower engines when I was 12.

I'm not your ordinary "Saturday mechanic", since I've rebuilt carbs with 120+ parts, installed an AC from a box (I'm Automobile/small appliance certified), replaced clutches, and wheel bearings. I've generally stopped working on cars for now to concentrate on other issues.

Plumbing and pointing a chimney to name a few.

My designs and fixes generally last a long time. I'm a conceptual person. Mostly self-taught. I can read.