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    animationmeister's Avatar
    animationmeister Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #1

    Feb 22, 2008, 08:47 PM
    Extending electrical outlet to other room?
    Hello experts, first of all, thanks in advance for taking the time to help me with my problem.

    Ok, so here's the deal. I rent an older apartement (built in 70's?) I am currently trying to build a home-based computer animation business. I have 7 years of experience doing computer animation, but no experience with electrical work. I currently am using my second bedroom as an office and (hopefully, if I can get the electrical issues worked out) plan to have as many as 6 high-end computers running at once (along with the plethora of monitors, external hard drives, speakers, etc. etc.). Each of these computers will have power supplies delivering a max output of between 600-800 watts (although, I used a power measuring device (KillaWatt) to sample the actual power used and found that my main computer never pulls more than 400watts from the wall at peak usage - don't know if that helps any.).

    I currently have 2 computers running, 3 monitors, 2 external harddrives, speakers, printer, 3 lights, an air purifier, a phone, a modem, router, and switch going on in the room. I believe that this room shares a circuit with most of the house except for the large appliances in the kitchen and, a few outlets in the dining room.

    I currently don't have any problems with the circuit breaker going off unless everything is running and my wife happens to run the vacuum (which uses 1000watts by the way) on the same circuit as the office. Then, it throws the breaker.

    So, since I don't even have the other 4 computers that I would like to purchase and set up in the office, I want to plan for their power consumption. Since this is a rental apartment, my first thought was to run an extension cord from the other breakered area (dining room) up along the ceiling, and have the other 4 computers running off that. I looked online and found that most everything warns against using extension cords for long term use with all sorts of dire warnings about cable heating up, etc, etc. In my mind, I have 2 options:

    A. Find the absolute heaviest gauge 75 ft. extension cord that I can find, paint it off-white (the color of my walls), and run it from the dining room, along the ceiling, under the door and up onto the wall of my office. Then, hook 4 computers onto that singe extension cord. (Also thinking about putting a UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supply) unit between each render box and their respective outlet). Am I a fool?

    B. Transfer the 4 computers to a new rack in the dining room (wife's not too happy about this one). Simply run Cat6 cable from the office to the dining room. I would have to worry about keeping this room cool as well as the office, so I was hoping the first option would be possible.

    Please Help! Also, please forgive my ignorance in regards to how electrical loads work. I do need help. :)




    On that note, anyone know how to force a central AC unit to put most of it's cooling capacity out one vent? (Other than closing all of the other vents.)
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #2

    Feb 23, 2008, 12:14 AM
    Let's start with a few basics:

    amps = watts/volts or amps = watts/120 assuming the US

    The circuit that something is attached to has a rating determined by it's breaker.

    Typical 120V ratings are 20 and 15 amps.

    If the loads are operated for more than 3 hours, then the circuit should be de-rated bu 80%. A 15A circuit should have no more amps than 0.8*15

    To estimate the load in amps, add the number of watts on a circuit and divide by 120. It should not exceed the 80% value.

    Next lesson:
    Wires have voltage drops and wires can heat up. The thiner the wire, the hotter it will heat up when current (amps) flows through it. For purests: I'll ignore length of the wire

    Wire has a size like 12 or 14 awg. The SMALLER the number the fatter the wire.
    12 AWG is used for 20 A circuits and 14 AWG is used for 15 Amp circuits.

    Questions so far?
    Flying Blue Eagle's Avatar
    Flying Blue Eagle Posts: 2,056, Reputation: 225
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    #3

    Feb 23, 2008, 01:10 AM
    Animationmeister - #1 you said you were renting, I do not think the landlord will OK this. #2- there are electrical codes that you need to go by , check with the electric co engineer. He will tell you , don't be afrid if you hear him say . DO YOU WANT TO BURN THE HOUSE DOWN, I haven't figured it up yet ,but I'm pretty sure you will violate all the electric codes, doing the way you are saying. I hope you have a 200 amp electrical panel already to just start with, IF you burn the house down and durning the investagtiion they find out what you have done ,and that caused the house to burn down ,Guess who the insurance co is going to make pay the owner for his houseWhat you need can be done ,but you had better get a licensed electrician to do the work , pluss get written permission to do it from the owner. You will have to get permits from the electrical co for 3 inspevctions also. This is only part of the headach, GOOD LUCK AND GOD BLESS . OH YOU can do the a/h also by getting a small unit for the one room F.B.E. I was licensed electriccian for about 25 years, Good going so far KISS F.B.E.
    animationmeister's Avatar
    animationmeister Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #4

    Feb 23, 2008, 03:58 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by KeepItSimpleStupid
    Let's start with a few basics:

    amps = watts/volts or amps = watts/120 assuming the US

    The circuit that something is attached to has a rating determined by it's breaker.

    Typical 120V ratings are 20 and 15 amps.

    If the loads are operated for more than 3 hours, then the circuit should be de-rated bu 80%. A 15A circuit should have no more amps than 0.8*15

    To estimate the load in amps, add the number of watts on a circuit and divide by 120. It should not exceed the 80% value.

    Next lesson:
    Wires have voltage drops and wires can heat up. The thiner the wire, the hotter it will heat up when current (amps) flows through it. For purests: I'll ignore length of the wire

    Wire has a size like 12 or 14 awg. The SMALLER the number the fatter the wire.
    12 AWG is used for 20 A circuits and 14 AWG is used for 15 Amp circuits.

    Questions so far?
    Nope, thanks for the education. Very clearly put. :) More input, Stephanie, More input! ;) (Short Circuit quote.)
    animationmeister's Avatar
    animationmeister Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #5

    Feb 23, 2008, 04:36 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Flying Blue Eagle
    Animationmeister - #1 you said you were renting, I do not think the landlord will ok this. #2- ther are electrical codes that you need to go by , check with the electric co engineer. he will tell you , dont be afrid if you hear him say . DO YOU WANT TO BURN THE HOUSE DOWN, I havent figured it up yet ,but im pretty sure you will violate all the electric codes, doing the way you are saying. I hope you have a 200 amp electrical panel already to just start with, IF you burn the house down and durning the investagtiion they find out what you have done ,and that caused the house to burn down ,Guess who the insurance co is going to make pay the owner for his houseWhat you need can be done ,but you had better get a licensed electrician to do the work , pluss get written permission to do it from the owner. you will have to get permits from the electrical co for 3 inspevctions also. this is only part of the headach, GOOD LUCK AND GOD BLESS . OH YOU can do the a/h also by getting a small unit for the one room F.B.E. I was licensed electriccian for about 25 years, Good going so far KISS F.B.E.
    Thanks FBE. I appreciate your candor and concern, however, I'm having a hard time trying to see how I can utilize your feedback (other than just give up). I certainly cannot do any sort of permanent electrical work to the apartment (neither do I want to). And, of course, I don't want to burn the house down. :) Perhaps, could you tell me where the most danger would be in my 2 proposed setups? (I can perhaps see how the first setup could be a hazard, but running cat6 cable from one room to another doesn't seem hazardous to me - but maybe it is, please let me know.)

    In regards to the first option, would running 1or 2 heavy duty extension cords from one room to another honestly be a fire hazard? I've read that extension cords can heat up and if they've be run under carpeting, etc, can lead to fires, but what about his puppy? Voltec Industries 06-00169 100', 600 Volt, Yellow and Black Extension Cord with Twist-to-Lock Connector
    I mean, it seems seriously overbuilt, and I doubt if it would even get warm under full load. Not to mention, that it's rated higher than the breaker is rated (I'm assuming that this is good, but please correct me if I'm wrong). Also, I don't intend to run it under carpet, but simply tape/or otherwise affix (without piercing the cord) it to a drywall (not in the wall, but on the outer surface (but inside the house). Would I honestly need a permit for this since it is technically "temporary"?

    In regards to the second option (placing 4 computers in another room and networking with cat6), what specifically will cause a fire hazard? Does spreading the load among different sockets (but in the same room/breaker) make any difference at all (heatwise)? I'm pretty sure it doesn't, but it's good to know if it does.

    You had mentioned a 200 amp electrical panel. I'm guessing mine is 150. But here's a pic let me know what you or KISS think.

    Thanks in advance for the help!
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #6

    Feb 23, 2008, 06:30 PM
    Ok, let's suppose you wanted to do this in the best possible way. The cord looks good.

    For long runs or outlets where the plug can be partially pulled out of the wall, I prefer a right angle plug. You can't easily pull these out of the wall.

    If possible, replace the receptacle that your plugging it into with a "Hospital grade" version.
    If you can get away with it, replace the Circuit breaker feeding the living/dining room with an AFCI or Arc Fault Breaker. These are required anyway. These protect against sparking, not overloads. These changes, technically are not within your jurisdiction, but make the potentially unsafe situation safer.

    As you noted, under carpets are bad. Long extension cords create tripping hazards. And as you noted, concealing extension cords is a bad idea.

    Your panel can be no more than 125 AMPS. The main breaker or if this is the sub-panel the value of the breaker feeding it define the rating.

    In regard to Cat 6, it could just be a single cable and a single cable is preferred. Again a tripping hazard.

    Technically, only another circuit is a good idea.
    animationmeister's Avatar
    animationmeister Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
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    #7

    Feb 23, 2008, 07:11 PM
    Thanks for all of the great information KISS! I'm looking into your suggestions now. Also, just to clarify, with either the extension cord or the cat6, it will never be on the ground, always running along the ceiling and wall - so no tripping hazards.

    Thanks again for the clear and precise answers! Now, I feel that I can make a more informed decision.
    KISS's Avatar
    KISS Posts: 12,510, Reputation: 839
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    #8

    Feb 23, 2008, 09:50 PM
    The cord you selected, has a locking connector for the male and female. It's not the 5-15p. The 15 is 15 amp, the p is for plug. R is or receptacle. L is for locking. See:

    VOLTEC INDUSTRIES

    It doesn't mean, you can't replace the plug and receptacle. The rubber portable cords pick p a lot of dirt, but that one doesn't appear to be rubber.
    Flying Blue Eagle's Avatar
    Flying Blue Eagle Posts: 2,056, Reputation: 225
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    #9

    Feb 23, 2008, 10:20 PM
    The panel looks like it's only a 125 amp I can just barly make out some of it on my screen it's blurry .I tried to make it smaller to make it planner but no good, IF what I see ,wirh what you already have in the panel you are already streched out. I still think you need to get a licensed out to have a look and offer his thoughts and safety maters and code following . I'm trying to get ( TK RUSSELL TO THIS POST< I HOPE YOU WAIT TO HEAR HIS COMMENTS STAY SAFE GOOD LUCK AND GOD BLESS ::: F.B.E.

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