I am sending an attachment showinh the side view of the description of the actual closet storage area. Do you agree? If not please detail why. Thanks, MWM

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Closet Storage Area.pdf (41.5 KB, 290 views)

Do we agree with what??

You want us to detail if we agree with your homework question?

And your question is what?

The shaded area represents the actual closet storage space as defined in the NEC. Top right illistration shows a storage area in a closet without shelving or rods. 2' x 6' area that continues 1' deep to ceiling. All other illistrations have similar measurements (except top center-- 14" shelf & lower illistration depicting 5' to top of closet rod).There are variations of shelving & closet rods. Do you agree or disagree the non shaded areas are places were light fixtures may be placed with proper clearances. I know you have to use your imagination a little but please try.

410.16 Luminaires in Clothes Closets.

(A) Luminaire Types Permitted. Listed luminaires of the following types shall be permitted to be installed in a closet:

(1) A surface-mounted or recessed incandescent luminaire with a completely enclosed lamp

(2) A surface-mounted or recessed fluorescent luminaire

(3) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires identified as suitable for installation within the storage area



(B) Luminaire Types Not Permitted. Incandescent luminaires with open or partially enclosed lamps and pendant luminaires or lampholders shall not be permitted.



(C) Location. The minimum clearance between luminaires installed in clothes closets and the nearest point of a storage space shall be as follows:

(1) 300 mm (12 in.) for surface-mounted incandescent or LED luminaires with a completely enclosed light source installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling

(2) 150 mm (6 in.) for surface-mounted fluorescent luminaires installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling

(3) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed incandescent or LED luminaires with a completely enclosed light source installed in the wall or the ceiling

(4) 150 mm (6 in.) for recessed fluorescent luminaires installed in the wall or the ceiling

(5) Surface-mounted fluorescent or LED luminaires shall be permitted to be installed within the storage space where identified for this use.

I know what is written in the code. My collection of handbooks and experience span 35 plus years, Inspectors& Electrical Contractors disagree with each other on the illistartions.Do the illistrations represent what is described in the code.

If your knowledge of code is as strong as you say, then you already have your answer.

Contact, your local AHJ and get their ruling on your positioning.

I completely agree.


I also feel there is no ambiguity here. It is what it is. It is all simply measurements.

I thought I was dealing with actual tradesmen who might have encounter he same questions. Thanks for not committing to anything. This is a yes or no answer. Will not use this site again

You got a detailed answer from ma0641, verbatim from the code book which you should have if you were an actual professional, yet you are getting pissed at us??

I'll reiterate; I also feel there is no ambiguity here. It is what it is. It is all simply measurements.

Don't blame us if you can't read the code book.

I suppose this is a moot point, since you state you won't use this site again, but I will try anyway. No reason for you to be defensive and get frustrated, simply continue to attempt to explain your situation and question and continue the conversation.

I don't see where you have been given double talk. You were simply given the incorrect Code Section regarding the proper storage space as defined by the NEC.

After your "collection of handbooks and experience span 35 plus years, Inspectors& Electrical Contractors disagree with each other on the illustrations" , you give up so easily after you give an unclear question and had gotten some unclear answers? If you have worked with the Code as long as you state you have, I am sure you realize how difficult it is to interpret.

And no one, including yourself, referred to Section 410.2, to learn what the Code defines as the storage space of a closet, and that no fixtures shall be installed within, and must be installed no closer that those dimensions given by Section 410.16 C.

From the 2008 Edition of the NFPA 70:

410.2 Definitions.
Closet Storage Space. The volume bounded by the sides and back closet walls and planes extending from the closet floor vertically to a height of 1.8 m (6 ft) or to the highest clothes-hanging rod and parallel to the walls at a horizontal distance of 600 mm (24 in.) from the sides and back of the closet walls, respectively, and continuing vertically to the closet ceiling parallel to the walls at a horizontal distance of 300 mm (12 in.) or the width of the shelf, whichever is greater; for a closet that permits access to both sides of a hanging rod, this space includes the volume below the highest rod extending 300 mm (12 in.) on either side of the rod on a plane horizontal to the floor extending the entire
length of the rod. See Figure 410.2.

How is that for some double talk? You can volunteer to be on a Code Making Panel for the NFPA 70 if you have any complaints about Section 410.2 wording.

Since you know the Code, I am sure you have reviewed this section, and Figure 410.2. You will see that the only sketch of the five provided that remotely matches the Code definition of storage space is the upper left, call it #1.

I state remotely, since there is no dimension of the upper shaded area, I assume that to be 24 inches.

The five sketches you provided seem to be a test to understand what Section 410.2 and Figure 410.2 are trying to convey. My opinion of the provided sketches is that they are bogus, since they only show a side view, and there are four walls, floor and ceiling of a typical closet, and there are clearly all of these surfaces to consider.

So, unfortunately, I do not see this question as requiring a simple yes or no answer. Now if you would like to continue having this discussion, without you getting so pissy, we can talk about the "why" question.

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