Ask Experts Questions for FREE Help !
Ask
    snappy131's Avatar
    snappy131 Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #1

    Nov 24, 2007, 03:55 PM
    4 way not working correctly
    Purchased a house and the 4 way not working. Figured that someone miswired one of the switches and when I checked the boxes this is what I found.

    Box 1 at bottom of stairs has 14-3 and 12 -2 BX cable. Power into this box. What is confusing in this box is that someone attached a bare copper wire from the neutral to the metal box. This completes the circuit without this copper attached nothing works. I think they lost neutral and this was the remedy. Not sure

    Box 2 top of stairs has 2 - 14-3 wires attached to the 4 way.

    Box 3 outside of bdrm has 14 -3 and a 14-2. 14-2 goes to the fixture.

    I thought I figured out all the hots and travelers but can't get this to work. What would be the best remedy to fix this circuit? Any advise would be greatly appreciated. Thanks
    biggsie's Avatar
    biggsie Posts: 1,267, Reputation: 125
    Ultra Member
     
    #2

    Nov 24, 2007, 05:08 PM
    This site shows a typical 3-way switch wired

    Howstuffworks "How Three-Way Switches Work"

    The neutral wire (top wire) white goes to neutral post on light--usually silver screw

    The power enters 3 way switch on wiper -- and exits on wiper to bronze screw on light

    The two center wires connect the two posts on switches -- hope this helps

    When switches are in same direction lights ---->light
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
    Uber Member
     
    #3

    Nov 24, 2007, 06:09 PM
    The question on 4 way switches has come up before. I dug up some of tkrussell's old answers, but the diagrams seem to have disappeared. It is just a matter of getting the travelers paired correctly on the switches. You may have to wait until he posts.
    Stratmando's Avatar
    Stratmando Posts: 11,188, Reputation: 508
    Uber Member
     
    #4

    Nov 24, 2007, 06:50 PM
    Sounds like you may actually have 3 ways. Remove both switches and have 2 same wires from 1 switch to other switch same 2 screws(They are the travellers and go to 2 same colored screws,on both switches.
    On each 3 way, the common of 1 is always hot, and the common screw of the other 3 way goes to the lite(Hot).
    If 3 switches controlling same set of lights, it is a 4 way and has 4 screws, 2 wires from same sheath or conduit go to 2 dark screws, and the travellers from other switch go to other 2 screws on 4 way.
    tkrussell's Avatar
    tkrussell Posts: 9,659, Reputation: 725
    Uber Member
     
    #5

    Nov 24, 2007, 07:14 PM
    Here is the only one I have. The tricky part is to know which pair of terminals are each set of travelers on a four way switch, usually top and bottom.
    Cobraguy's Avatar
    Cobraguy Posts: 140, Reputation: 11
    Junior Member
     
    #6

    Nov 25, 2007, 06:25 AM
    Snappy, I have had myself buried in a situation like yours. I was having a heck of a time determining what wires went where. Finally, I opened up every box (including the lights... I had three) and disconnected every single splice so I had open wire ends to work with. I turned the power back on and using my Fluke meter, determined which cable supplied power. Then I turned the power off, switched my meter over to ohms, and using some long automotive wire with alligator clips on each end as a jumper, I was able to easily determine exactly which cable went where. From there, it's very simple to follow tk's diagram.
    snappy131's Avatar
    snappy131 Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #7

    Nov 25, 2007, 07:29 AM
    Thanks for the answers. I see what everyone is saying and the diagram is what I have. The main concern I have is that they jumpered the twisted neutral wire with a bare copper and attached it to the metal casing of the outlet box. The house has BX and I think they are using the sheathing to complet the circuit. Without this wire the circuit does not work at all. Is this allowed? Could this potentional lead to a shock hazard? Once I'm sure of this then the problem must be with the 4 way switch being miswired. You guys are great with the answers that have been given on this post. It definilty helps the little guy out there trying to do the right thing.
    Thanks
    tkrussell's Avatar
    tkrussell Posts: 9,659, Reputation: 725
    Uber Member
     
    #8

    Nov 25, 2007, 07:35 AM
    Whoa, stop the bus... connection of a neutral to the equipment ground, the metal sheathing of the BX, is not allowed, ever, period.

    Not sure what your going to do to fix this, but that,and any other neutral connected to ground, needs to be disconnected.

    Neutral, while at zero volts, is a current carrying conductor, and you are allowing current to return to the panelboard via all bare metal. In just the right, or wrong, as you see it, conditions, this is a shock hazard.

    And since BX sheathing relies on tight box clamps and connector for continuity, and loose clamp or connector can arc and will cause a fire hazard.
    snappy131's Avatar
    snappy131 Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #9

    Nov 25, 2007, 07:06 PM
    Thank you for the advise. I had an idea that this setup was not kosher. I'll have to try and figure a way to run a new circuit to fix this problem.

    Thanks again for the quick response. You guys are GREAT!
    snappy131's Avatar
    snappy131 Posts: 4, Reputation: 1
    New Member
     
    #10

    Nov 25, 2007, 07:07 PM
    Comment on tkrussell's post
    Right to the point.
    Cobraguy's Avatar
    Cobraguy Posts: 140, Reputation: 11
    Junior Member
     
    #11

    Nov 26, 2007, 06:15 AM
    I'm wondering if you haven't lost your neutral circuit somewhere and they used the ground as a "crutch" rather than fix it right. I would want that fixed rather than just arbitrarily run a new wire.

Not your question? Ask your question View similar questions

 

Question Tools Search this Question
Search this Question:

Advanced Search

Add your answer here.


Check out some similar questions!

Furnace not working correctly [ 1 Answers ]

My furnace kicks on and off like everything is okay but it blows cold air. I took the cover off and it has an automatic pilot but it is not coming on. Any suggestions?

Heater won't come on correctly. [ 1 Answers ]

When I use the Auto feature on the heater it won't come on but when I put it on Fan it runs just fine. What's causing this?


View more questions Search