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We are finishing our basement and want to put a switch for shop lights at the bottom of our stairs and one on the outside of two already finished rooms.We are using 12/3 wire and have come to a standstill.All is wired but no power to the receptacles for the shop lights.HELP!! what have we done wrong and is there a fix.?Thank you.Rozey.
... put a switch at the entrance of the room to control one half of the large 'family room' and a switch for the other half{double switch}there are 5 lights in total that plug into receptacles;via the shop lights;then at the other end of the room as to go into the other rooms we want a way to shut off the lights without crossing back to the other end of the room to do so.
There are two circuits involved here.
Circuit one : entrance of room for one half of room. To be switched from both sides of the room.
Circuit two : other half of room (towards other rooms). Additional here is the capacity to interrupt circuit one from a second switch.
You will have to place TWO switches next to each other at location two.
Switch 1 a normal on/off switch for circuit two.
Switch 2 a 'hotel' switch (together with a second 'hotel' switch) for cicuit one.
Wiring :
Circuit one :
switching from both sides : life (black) direct to all lightfittings, and other side of all light fittings to 'hotel switch' one common. Two switching wires from 'hotel' switch one to 'hotel' switch two.
Common contact of second 'hotel' switch to neutral (white).
Circuit two : life (black) direct to switch contact, and second switch contact direct to all lightfittings in that circuit. Other side of all lightfittings to neutral (white).
As stated before : it is possible to combine the two switches next to each other in one, but that requires the services of an electrical professional, because some (expensive) electronics have to be installed.
I've never heard the term "hotel switches". We always called them "three-way switches", even though there are only two switches on the circuit.
In many countries these switches are called 'hotel' switches. It is possible that you call them 3-way switches, but that name is rather confusing, as there are only 2 switched in/out contacts involved, not three. The problem was not in the name of the switch, but in the wiring.
As Rozey rephrased here question elsewhere :
... put a switch at the entrance of the room to control one half of the large 'family room' and a switch for the other half{double switch}there are 5 lights in total that plug into receptacles;via the shop lights;then at the other end of the room as to go into the other rooms we want a way to shut off the lights without crossing back to the other end of the room to do so.
My response : there are two circuits involved here.
Circuit one : entrance of room for one half of room. To be switched from both sides of the room.
Circuit two : other half of room (towards other rooms). Additional here is the capacity to interrupt circuit one from a second switch.
You will have to place TWO switches next to each other at location two.
Switch 1 a normal on/off switch for circuit two.
Switch 2 a 'hotel' switch (together with a second 'hotel' switch) for cicuit one.
Wiring :
Circuit one :
switching from both sides : life (black) direct to all lightfittings, and other side of all light fittings to 'hotel switch' one common. Two switching wires from 'hotel' switch one to 'hotel' switch two.
Common contact of second 'hotel' switch to neutral (white).
Circuit two : life (black) direct to switch contact, and second switch contact direct to all lightfittings in that circuit. Other side of all lightfittings to neutral (white).
As stated before : it is possible to combine the two switches next to each other in one, but that requires the services of an electrical professional, because some (expensive) electronics have to be installed.
... put a switch at the entrance of the room to control one half of the large 'family room' and a switch for the other half{double switch}there are 5 lights in total that plug into receptacles;via the shop lights;then at the other end of the room as to go into the other rooms we want a way to shut off the lights without crossing back to the other end of the room to do so.
There are two circuits involved here.
Circuit one : entrance of room for one half of room. To be switched from both sides of the room.
Circuit two : other half of room (towards other rooms). Additional here is the capacity to interrupt circuit one from a second switch.
You will have to place TWO switches next to each other at location two.
Switch 1 a normal on/off switch for circuit two.
Switch 2 a 'hotel' switch (together with a second 'hotel' switch) for cicuit one.
Wiring :
Circuit one :
switching from both sides : life (black) direct to all lightfittings, and other side of all light fittings to 'hotel switch' one common. Two switching wires from 'hotel' switch one to 'hotel' switch two.
Common contact of second 'hotel' switch to neutral (white).
Circuit two : life (black) direct to switch contact, and second switch contact direct to all lightfittings in that circuit. Other side of all lightfittings to neutral (white).
As stated before : it is possible to combine the two switches next to each other in one, but that requires the services of an electrical professional, because some (expensive) electronics have to be installed.
Are you here in the U.S.A.? I ask this because Sarian is using terms that are not used here in the U.S.A.
For example, "Hotel Switch". Here that switch is defined and listed by the NEC as a three way switch. It gets it name because there are three terminal points on the switch. One for supply and two for "Travelers". Also, "Ungrounded conductor" is described as Hot or Live and is identified as several different colors such as Black, or Red. Neutral is defined as the Grounded conductor and identified as White or gray. Bare, green or green with yellow stripes is called the Equipment Grounding Conductor.
Sarian also uses several other foreign terms (with respect to the U.S.A. NEC code) that may be misleading to you.
So before I create a tempest in a teapot, are you here in the U.S.A. or in another nation?
"Circuit one : switching from both sides : life (black) direct to all light fittings, and other side of all light fittings to 'hotel switch' one common. Two switching wires from 'hotel' switch one to 'hotel' switch two. Common contact of second 'hotel' switch to neutral (white).
Circuit two : life (black) direct to switch contact, and second switch contact direct to all light fittings in that circuit. Other side of all light fittings to neutral (white).
As stated before : it is possible to combine the two switches next to each other in one, but that requires the services of an electrical professional, because some (expensive) electronics have to be installed."
What is not defined in your question is where the power supply will be coming from and how will it be routed to your switches. Will you deliver the supply cable to a central point in the ceiling or will it be delivered to one of the switches. Which will you choose. Until we have that piece of information we are at a stopping point.
I noticed that you are using 12/3 w/ground cable. I'm assuming that you will also be feeding 20 amp circuit from a 20 amp breaker in your main panel, correct?
If that is true, than a 12/3 w/ground run from the panel using two 20 amp breakers and a shared neutral will be fine for the supply line. You will also need 12/3 to run between the two three way switches. The rest can be accomplished using 12/2 w/ground
One other thought. I would suggest using two sets of three way switches on both ends of the room. That way both sets of lights can be controlled from either end of the new "family room."
Would you be able to provide a picture of what you done so far? Also, are the lights designed to plug into receptacles or are they to be direct wired together? In either case you need to be installing junction boxes to contain the wiring or device boxes to install the receptacle into.
Good points, but please note that I only adviced Rozey what to do and how to do. I did not use the term 'three way switches' because that term is actually incorrect. The required circuitry needs two way switches (for which the official international name is 'hotel' switch).
Please note that the Internet is worldwide, and that the US is part of that world too.
No tempest in that teapot, though !
A pleasure to meet you. Where in the world are you?
I disagree with you wrt the term "Hotel switch". I do agree that my view is parochial in that I study only U.S. books. However that said, there is no listed product that I can find in any resource that I have that uses the term "Hotel Switch".
Here in the U.S. all electrical products must be listed to be sold. Hotel Switch is not defined as a listed product. A general description of "Switches" is found in the U.S.A NEC in Section 404.
Here in the U.S. all electrical products must be listed to be sold. Hotel Switch is not defined as a listed product.
This link (with circuitry and description) describes it properly as a two-way switch.
The term three way switch is factually incorrect, and must be local US slang.
You may not use the word 'hotel' switch in the US, but the circuitry solution I described was correct and solving the problem of the poster. The word 'hotel' indicates in many languages it to be a two way switch without mid-position.
I did a Google search on the term "Hotel Switches" and received plenty of responses.
I went to several site and reviewed their products. One thing they all had in common was that each switch assembly designated as a Hotel Switch also said that it was for Hotel use only.
Since Rozey is renovating her home, a residence, those switches could not be used in her home. Do they make Home use "Hotel Switches" in your neck of the world?
Over here these switches are clustered under the title of snap switches and then broken down by specific type.
I'm going to scan through some of the books I have handy to see if any of them define this switch as a two way switch.
A three way switch would be identified by the two traveler connections and the one supply. Also, the snap handle will not be marked as ON or OFF.
I do not believe that a three way switch is slang. It specifically means a switch with one input and two outputs. But I'll keep looking.
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