Hello everyone,
For those of you who haven't read my other posts, my female pitbull is pregos again!! We are going to sell all of the puppies to the petstore after we ween them off of the mother. HOW OLD SHOULD THEY BE before we take them away from the mother??

* * The puppies will primarily be eating home-made puppy formula. Most of their nutrition will not come from the mother's milk (if this litter is like her first litter-- SHE HAD 11 puppies her FIRST LITTER)!!

Just wanted to know your opinion on how young is too young to take away from the mother?? I am NOT worried about my female b/c last time, she didn't want to be in the "whelping box" w/ the puppies. She is used to A LOT of attention & sleeps in my bed everynight!! So, when the puppies came, she had to spend most of her time w/ them! She wanted so bad to just come lay w/ me!! When we sold all of the puppies, she was not sad at all! She didn't try to look for them either!! She just was so happy that her life went back to normal & she could spend lots of time w/ her mommy!!

I am asking about the weening for the puppies sake!!

RubyPitbull

I think the misunderstanding on this thread comes from flcutiepye asking two separate questions. She is asking about weening in her title and at the end of the post. But she is asking for our advice and opinions regarding when the pups should be taken away from their mother within the body of her original post. Both her posts seem to suggest that she believes weaning and separation are the same thing? I am not sure because of the way it is worded. It does read to me as if she wants to give the pups to the pet store when they are 4 1/2 weeks old. So, maybe she can be clearer in what she is asking here when she posts back. I think that the three of us are actually all in agreement when weaning can begin to get the pups onto solids, and how early she can safely sell them to the pet store (IMHO - 7 weeks).

flcutiepye

I was asking both... When is the appropriate age that they should be weened from the mother & when should they be ok to be taken from the mother? Sorry for all of the confusion!!! I know that weening means something different than seperation, but I have been told a plethora of different ages!! Also, last time, when the puppies were roaming around the house, a few of them got to my dogs' food bowls & tried eating their wet puppy food! At 4 weeks of age, I mixed formula w/ puppy food & allowed the puppy food to soak for a day so it wouldn't be hard & the puppies wouldn't choke on it! Last time, I sold the puppies at 6 1/2 weeks. I was just wondering if the puppies would still be healthy if they were sold before then b/c the petstore asked when the soonest time I could sell them would be. And I did NOT want to put the puppies at risk for anything!

In regards to RubyPitbull's statement: "It is obvious from these statements that it is not for the sake of the puppies but because you don't want to deal with the inconvenience they bring. So, please stop trying to convince us that you are contemplating getting rid of them as early as you possibly can for "the puppies sake."" I am NOT trying to convince you of ANYTHING!! I don't know where you based your opinion off of. It was so hard for me to sell the puppies last time!! I was crying my eyes out everytime we sold one!! I LOVE everyone of their puppies!! I do not mind having 13 dogs around my house (the 11 pups & my 2 dogs). If I were able to keep all of the puppies, I WOULD HAVE!! But I can't!!! The puppies did not cause me any inconvenience!! They were a joy!! I LOVED playing w/ each & every one of them & cherished the time we spent together!! I still see them on a regular basis!!
My female, on the other hand, did not want to stay w/ her puppies. She would cry b/c she wanted to come out of the bathroom & spend time w/ my boyfriend & I. She is used to A LOT of attention!! A LOT! And when she had the puppies, she had to stay in there w/ them! Actually, there were times when the puppies were too small to get out of the bathtub & Sasha would not go into the tub to feed them!! They wanted their mom, but she wanted our attention!! Also, she did not produce enough milk for all of them, so we had to make formula for them to make sure they ate enough. What inconvenience could the puppies really ever create?!? That I have to feed them? NO! IT was absolutely adorable to feed them out of a bottle! And then when they were old enough, it was beautiful to watch them all eat/drink the formula out of the bowl! IT was the cutest thing I've ever seen!! I didn't mind cleaning up after them b/c they produced little poopies! I am used to MUCH bigger ones!! I don't see what inconvenience you think they might have caused me, but you are 1000000% wrong in your assumption. I just know that my female is accustomed to a certain lifestyle & was very happy once the puppies were all gone b/c she didn't have them to give her hickeys or follow her around. And she could sleep w/ us in our bed instead of w/ them in the bathroom!

AND YES, I am breeding the dogs this time to help pay for the bills!! I have had to spend A LOT of money on both dogs. I understand that is part of the responsibility of owning dogs, but I need money right now to buy my family Christmas presents! The petstore offered to sign a contract to purchase the whole litter (less any puppies that I sell to friends, which I will be able to see regularly). I also understand that many dogs are in places like the humane society & need adoption! I have adopted several dogs from the humane society. Unfortunately, the last dog I rescued had to be given to a friend b/c he wasn't very good around other dogs & needed his own space (he was abused as a puppy). But Tyson was rescued! He was starving in the middle of the ghetto & almost got killed by a car!!!!

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion about me breeding my dogs. I know that I am a responsible pet owner & give my dogs the best life they could ever ask for! My dogs are healthy & well-trained! There are many times that I WISH I could have their life!!

I am definitely blessed that I have had a chance to bring another (11) life into this world & had the chance to know & raise the puppies from birth til the time they were sold. I did the absolute best that I could for all of the puppies & know that my friends are raising them well. I do not see a problem w/ me breeding my dogs to make money if people want to buy them. It would be a whole different story if I were breeding them & then bringing the puppies to the pound!! I would NEVER EVER do that b/c I know that most, if not all, of them would be euthanized b/c they are pitbulls.

My post was not about everyone's opinion about me breeding the dogs. My question was about weening (& then seperating) from the mother.

labman

I want to make a couple of points. As I have said, it is good practice
to introduce puppies to solid food, or at least softened puppy chow at 4
weeks. It is absolutely essential the puppies stay together with their
mother until 6 weeks, and a little longer is better. However there are
limits. The puppy that lives in a kennel until past 12 weeks will have
trouble adjusting life outside a kennel. I see plenty of questions from
people that have bought a 3-4 month old puppy and it is having trouble
adjusting to living in a house and meeting strangers.

Yes we have an example of the much maligned backyard breeder here.
Perhaps Sasha and Tyson haven't been as carefully screened for problems
such as allergies as we would like. The homes the puppies are going to
may not meet our standards. Some of them may endure extended time in
the pet store and be too old when finally purchased.

There are some positives too. The parents are beloved pets living in the home. The litter was whelped in the home. I noted the one picture of the toddler holding a puppy. I maintain a store of material I dig out to paste in to avoid retyping the same old things. here is something I have said in the past on selecting a puppy:

''Maybe ask to visit the breeders home. Field and show champions can be bred
in kennels. Dogs where the mother lives in the house have the best
personalities. Some kids to fondle the puppies from birth are better yet. If
the breeder doesn't want the parents in their house, do you want the offspring
in yours? Spend as much time with the parents as you can. Nice parents don't
guarantee nice puppies, but don't chance bad parents. Of course ask about hip
and eye certification or other genetic problems common to your breed too.''

Males that maintain their welcome in a home by keeping both hind legs on the floor are far less likely to produce sons that mark in the house.

As far a breeding for money goes, many breeders are in it for the money. What about that Woodhaven kennels whose website I use as a reference for many questions? Are those that produce littler after litter pursuing show titles morally superior to those looking at the money? Selling the puppies to defray the costs of their hobby? Often keeping them in a kennel until 12 weeks old?

oneguyinohio

Pit Bull? Do any serious professional breeders call them Pit Bulls? Any guesses how many of these precious puppies will be used for all the wrong reasons or else be dead before they are two years old for more reasons than I could list? Consider spaying as a way to prevent any concerns about getting rid of puppies in the future. Is the money so good from selling to the pet store that you disregard the facts of what you are perpetuating by allowing anyone with a few bucks to have the "pit bulls" regardless of what happens? Perhaps you just love the breed so much that you want to increase their numbers... well backyard breeding isn't the best way to continue the positive standards of the breed that the major breed clubs are trying to promote... leave it to the well qualified experts for the sake of the breed.

RubyPitbull

I am not trying to be mean, rude or nasty here. I recognize that you are a nice person but you are turning a blind eye to the very sad fact of the plight of a breed that you love dearly. I love them dearly too and I could not leave this thread without pointing out the facts and figures that I did. I work with rescues. I retrain dogs that have been considered lost causes. My pitbull was one of them. She was slated to be euthanized. People make comments about how beautiful she is and ask if I am willing to mate her with their dogs. The first thing I did when I adopted her was to spay her. I see enough pitbulls in shelters looking for homes. Why should I take away the chance of one of those needy dogs to be adopted? If I bred her, that would translate into every person who bought one of her puppies means one less person is available to save one of those dogs caged in a shelter who is in need of a loving home. The end result is that I would ultimately be responsible for those dogs being euthanized. I could not live with myself knowing that.
I "based" my "opinion off of" YOUR wording which I quoted in post #6 on this thread. That was my response to your statement. It is very self-explanatory but if you need me to requote it, I will. In your post #3 you stated: "I wanted to ween them off as soon as possible so they don't destroy my house like last time! I was wondering if 4 1/2 weeks was too soon for the puppies sake!" How else did you expect an outsider to interpret that wording?

But, it was about everyone's opinion. You specifically asked for everyone's opinions. And we gave them. You left your question open for further discussion by your follow up post and your statement that you are selling these pups to a pet store. Breeding, whelping, weening, separating, and sale are all subjects that are intertwined due to the time frames involved. If you don't want our EXTENDED opinions, then you need to state that in your original question. But considering you stated this in your most recent post you are still giving us permission to talk about it.

I stated in my earlier post when you mentioned this before, her lack of attachment should be of concern to you. I watch my dog. I see what makes her uncomfortable and correct the situation. Your dog was uncomfortable and wasn't interested in being a mother to her litter. She only wants her Mommy and Daddy. That should be a major factor in your decision making process to continue breeding her. If it isn't something she is interested in, why put her or the puppies through that? If it doesn't make sense to me, I have to question it.

This is the inherent problem with breeding. It is a what is referred to as a "vicious (or never ending) cycle" --many people believe that they can earn additional money from breeding but it winds up costing them more money and they are always behind, so they continue to breed. You need to carefully consider whether it is worth it to you to trade off the life of just one puppy that might be used for fighting, to buy Christmas presents for people.

This is also what I need you to think about. Not everyone is as loving as you and I toward our dogs. Selling your puppies to a pet store gives you absolutely no control over their fate. You have no guarantee that they won't be abused by their new owners. That dog you rescued and gave away is a perfect example of this. Think about that dog and think about your puppies in that pet store. Aside from no guarantees that the puppies won't be abused by someone purchasing them, you have no guarantee that the new owner is willing to put in the time to train them. One of the reasons a lot of dogs wind up in shelters is due to people buying them as puppies because they are cute and, as they grow, the owner realizes it is too difficult for them/too much responsibility, so they surrender them to a shelter, or just dump them somewhere hoping someone will take in their dogs.

That contradicts your "destroy my house" statement. But okay. Unfortunately, you need to get ready to cry a lot more because you won't be able to visit the pups that you are selling to the pet store. Once they are handed over to the pet store, you have no right to ask questions. As I stated, they sell puppies to ANYONE that is willing to purchase them. I know you are not ignorant to the plight of the pitbull. I know you love your dogs. You know that fighting is very big business where you live. So, there is a very high probability factor that some of those puppies will be sold to people who will fight them. Please do not turn a blind eye to that reality. You and your boyfriend are the ones that are totally in control of this situation. No one else.

Please, please, please, give careful consideration to what I am saying here. After this litter, please be one of those people who step up and stops the cycle by spaying your female.

katieperez

This statement is the epitome of selfishness. Argue your case all you want, but you are wrong in so many aspects that need not be retyped by me. It's people like you that cause so much heartache for people here that do rescue work. I don't know if you're too stubborn and ignorant, or just plain nieve, but what you're doing is appalling. I suggest you spend a day you might have free in one of your local pounds. You know, the city's animal control shelter. Just help clean cages and feed and such. You'll get a glimpse of what goes on behind the scenes. 9 times out of 10, what you encounter will make you have a change of heart. Go there, volunteer for a day, then post back. Although who am I trying to kid, someone like you has probable lost every morstle of compassion for needy innocent homeless animals that are murdered at the taxpayers expense simply for being born. Like your pups. I'll keep them in my thoughts.

flcutiepye

First off, the breeding of my dogs is no one's business & that wasn't what the post was about. I'm tired of being attacked by you people for my business!! I didn't ask anyone's opinion about breeding them, I asked about weening them!! You have no room to judge me for what I do!! I have more compassion than most people in this world!! My dogs produced very good looking puppies, that are healthy & have great temperments. Because of the success of the first litter, I was asked to breed them again!! The pet store is not going to buy puppies from the humane society & sell at his store!! He has a family & needs to make a living too!! NOT everyone wants to adopt from the humane society!!!!

I know what the pound is!! I have adopted MANY dogs from there!!! Tyson would have gone to the pound if we didn't take him home b/c he was roaming the streets in the ghetto & someone had already called animal control. I am not selfish, stubborn, ignorant or nieve. I know what happens to the dogs at the pound! We take full responsibilty for out dogs & all of their puppies!! We have actually had to take care of 3 of the puppies for friends b/c their association said the dogs weren't welcome there! If we weren't caring/compassionate, they would have had no other choice but to take them to a shelter or find another home for them!! But we took care of the puppies for them until they found a place that would accept this breed! Have you ever done that??

Some people do not like buying from places like the humane society because many of the "older" dogs have been abused! I know, because I've gotten a few!! And it is very hard to undo what has been done to them!! A lot of people prefer to have a puppy as young as possible so they can teach them only good things!! We check out all of our buyers & so does the store. We actually have a clause in the contract that states that we must be present when someone comes to purchase one of our puppies so we can evaluate them. There is NO guarantee that someone won't use them for fighting, but you can't guarantee that won't happen when someone adopts them from the pound! Can you??
As for the name calling, who are you to judge me & make assumptions?? Are you perfect?!!?? You don't know me!! I take very good care of my animals & my responsibilites to these animals. No, I don't work for the pound, but I would never do it b/c they kill animals that don't need to be killed!! I have never killed an animal!! They call it the "Humane society," yet they kill animals all the time!! Me breeding my dogs twice has no impact on whether or not those dogs will find homes b/c there are millions of petstores where people can buy dogs from!! I will not donate my time to an organization that kills countless amounts of animals each year!! I haven't killed one!!

This is the last response I will type about this matter. I have wasted too much of my time on this! It's no one's business about what I do with my dogs b/c I am a responsible owner! I never made it anyone's business! I asked about weening, not breeding!!
Look at what you've done in your life before you judge mine!! I'm a good-hearted person & do not deserve to be attacked!!!

304gabby96

About The Age Of 6 Weeks Or When They Get Teeth.

carolbcac

There are (as I see it) three distinct issues here:
1. When to wean--as in to start on solid food
2. When to take the puppies away from the mother
3. Irresponsible breeding practices

(1.) 3-4 weeks is the time when I, personally, start to introduce softened puppy food. With a big breed, and a large litter, Mom may just not produce enough calories to give the pups what they need. It doesnt mean pulling them off the mother, just supplementing what she is able to produce. There is nothing terribly scientific about this, but this is about the time that they start to toddle around and can learn to lick from a bowl. Granted they wear more than they eat the first few days, but mom sure seems to have a good time cleaning up the mess.

(2.) Eight weeks seems to be the commonly accepted time among behaviorists to leave the mother. I know some studies have been done, (again, don't have the references at hand but could find them) that show puppies learn a lot about being a normal dog in those last 2-3 weeks. This also gives them time to have responded to their 6-week puppy shot so they leave with a stronger immune system. 4 1/2 weeks is ABSOLUTELY to young to send them out into the world.

(3.) Breeding dogs to sell to pet stores is absolutely irresponsible. Let's see, she had 11 last time. If I remember my figures correctly, the failure to spay just one dog can lead to the production of over 28,000 dogs over a 9 year period. I don't even want to multiply.
Having a breed like a pit bull is a huge responsibility. They already have such a bad rap, they must go to responsible homes. Owners for these pups should be screened as if you were adopting a child. The pet store is going to sell to whoever has the cash.
Statistically, over 80% of puppies placed will not be in the same home one year from now.
Your puppies may be fought on the streets or in organized fights, they may spend their lives tethered to a dog house with a logging chain. They may end up on the 6 o'clock news for mauling a child. A few may have a good life with a responsible owner, but you will never know, because you don't know where they are tonight.
Please visit the nearest shelter. Most of the animals are there because of someone's irresponsiblity. Many of them are purebreds. If possible, go on euthanasia day. There is nothing like a pile of 60-70 dead bodies, just like last week, just like there will be next week, to make you think twice about ever bringing another puppy into this overcrowded world. If you think one of yours could never be in that body pile, you are mistaken.
I am sorry if I offended anyone, but these are images I will never be able to get out of my mind.
I will get off my soapbox now, and go find my blood pressure medicine.

carolbcac

I see that another post was added while I was typing this one. The reason that this is our business is that we have to deal with the results of irresponsible breeding.
We look into the innocent eyes of dogs and cats who did not ask to be born, and take their lives. Shelters are not perfect, God knows I am not perfect. On this one subject, however, I am sure.
Yes, we are the killers, the murderers. I've been called that before. That pack of murdered dogs follows me every day and haunts me at night. But we killed them to make room for the others that needed food and shelter, and some chance that they might find a good home. I will be called to account for that at the end, and hope I can be forgiven by a merciful God.
This post is not just directed at you flcutiepye, it's here for other people who may be thinking about breeding, who may still have an open mind.
I will also cease posting on this thread, it is obvious that your mind is made up.
You may never have used a needle and syringe, but yes, you have killed animals by causing more unneutered animals to enter a world already filled to the brim. You just didn't have to do the dirty work.