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    tiger_3leg's Avatar
    tiger_3leg Posts: 31, Reputation: 2
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    #1

    Dec 14, 2004, 09:43 PM
    8 month old puppy still pooping in crate
    Hi.
    I adopted an 8 week old Pit Bull mix from a pet store in July. From day one, she has peed and pooped in her crate nearly EVERY night. She did have coccida, but was treated and is now cleared. She was spayed at 12 weeks of age. I thought she was going to the bathroom in her crate because that's what she learned to do while living in the pet store (she's not a puppy-farm girl - the pet store carries dogs for the local animal control to help get them placed).
    She is very smart - I do my own obedience training, and she knows several tricks and games. I know about teaching them that I am the dominant of the pack, etc, and that is not a problem.
    My only problem with her is that she is STILL going to the bathroom in her crate - she is 8 months old now. It sounds very similar to the pug puppy that I saw posted in this forum. I always let her out just before bed and make sure she pees and poops. However, by morning, there is pee and cold, dry poop (so obviously several hours old) in her crate. At first, she had a blanket on the tray with several toys in the crate with her (she is also fed in the crate), but because she would soil her blanket and toys, I ended up taking them out. Also, I would have to give her daily baths because she would be covered in her mess. She has been fully housetrained for about 2 months now, so I decided to let her stay out of the crate and sleep in my room at night. But, I woke to find my books and stuffed animals shredded, along with several puddles of pee and piles of poop. So, I bought a grate to in the crate, and started putting her back up at night. At first, it was great - she would still pee overnight, but at least she wasn't laying in it. She had stopped pooping in the crate at the time. However, after about a week or so, she started pooping again, and it get mashed into the grate and creates a HORRIBLE mess to clean up (I live in a rented townhouse, and we don't have a hose, so it makes clean-up very difficult). Even though I scrub the crate every day, it still smells and the downstairs STINKS! I can't take this much longer! We have tried ignoring her for 20-30 minutes before leaving and after getting home, but that seems to make it worse.
    Any ideas?
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
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    #2

    Dec 15, 2004, 10:06 AM
    What you are doing is much of what I would suggest. It is difficult working with a dog that has learned one way or another to live in its filth. A good start prevents many difficult problems. Before giving up on the crate, look at a few issues. How big is the crate? If it has more than enough room to stretch out in, try blocking off part of it.

    Staying clean a few nights may suggest she would really like to stay clean all the time. Working with her food and eating schedule may help. If you are feeding a regular, grain based chow, switching to a concentrated, meat based one may help by producing smaller stools. They are also less messy. If cost is a problem, there are house brands, and by feeding less, it reduces the difference in cost. At 8 months you could cut back to one meal if that works for her. More, smaller meals might work too. Feeding earlier or later to move the bowel movement away from the middle of the night could help too.

    Covering a wire crate or putting it is a corner or under a table could make it more of a den and less of a cage, maybe making it more acceptable.

    Last of all, just because I think crates are the best solution for most dogs, doesn't mean that yours might not do better on a tiedown, a short length of chain with a snap on the end. With the dog confined to a small are with a hard surface, it has some of the advantages of a crate without her past issues with one. In your bed room might be best. If it is carpeted, add a hard surface, a piece of plywood or a chair mat from an office supply might work. Keep electrical cords, stuffed toys, books, etc. out of reach. No one solution to anything works for all dogs.
    tiger_3leg's Avatar
    tiger_3leg Posts: 31, Reputation: 2
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    #3

    Dec 15, 2004, 11:44 AM
    Puppy pooping in crate
    Thanks for the help.
    She is about 30-35 pounds now, and in a 36" crate. She has enough room to stand, turn around, and lay down, so it doesn't give her much empty space. I have a larger crate, and I thought about switching her to that one, but it sounds like it would be better to keep her in her current crate.
    Also, for about a month now, I have only been feeding her once a day at 7:00am. Over the course of the day, she will usually have 2 bowel movements, one of those right as I'm putting her to bed for the night. I feed Purina Puppy Chow Complete Nutrition Formula. Although I just noticed that it's first ingredient is ground corn. I think I'll try switching to Iams or Eukanuba - something with meat as the first ingredient, as you suggested.
    I have tried leaving her out of the crate at night, but she will just poop wherever she is and play with it, smearing it everywhere. I think, for the protection of my carpet and walls, she's better off in her crate!
    I am also going to start leaving the radio or TV on for her while she's alone. Maybe she won't feel so lonely - I've been thinking that maybe part of her problem is separation anxiety. Also, I think I'm going to start blocking my other dog in the same room with her, so she doesn't feel so lonely.
    I've also started noticing that if I say "no poopies" as I'm putting her to bed, then there usually won't be any in the morning. Then, as I'm letting her out, I'll repeat "no poopies!" and give her a treat. Seems to be helping, although not 100%.
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
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    #4

    Dec 15, 2004, 12:48 PM
    If you switch chows now, may as well go with an adult chow. At the worst, you slow growth. On the larger breeds, an early switch to adult chow helps to develop stronger joints.

    Sometimes dogs seem to understand much more than we think.
    tiger_3leg's Avatar
    tiger_3leg Posts: 31, Reputation: 2
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    #5

    Dec 17, 2004, 07:40 PM
    Update
    Thought I'd throw out an update on Lily...
    We have given her a new blanket in her crate, have put up a baby gate so our other dogs will stay in the room with her, and leave the radio on all day for her. Throughout the day, we will put Lily and Allie up in their "bedroom" for half hour periods. During those times, we leave Lily's crate door open so she can wonder in the bedroom with Allie. So far, she hasn't had any accidents, and I often catch her napping or chewing a bone in her crate. When I'm at work or at night, Allie stays in the room, but we keep Lily closed in her crate (she's more likely to have accidents when left for long periods). Since making the changes 2 nights ago, she hasn't pooped once, and for the first time since we got her, there was no pee in her crate this morning!! Her feeding and bathroom times haven't changed at all, so I think these other changes are helping. I am still planning on switching her food to Iams, though, just for the better nutrition.
    Thanks for your help! I'll give another update in a few days.
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
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    #6

    Dec 17, 2004, 08:33 PM
    Great. We are waking up every morning with a wet puppy, but shebe won't be 8 weeks old until Sunday. The rack only reduces the problem.
    tiger_3leg's Avatar
    tiger_3leg Posts: 31, Reputation: 2
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    #7

    Dec 20, 2004, 09:10 PM
    Here's another update...
    Lily is started peeing and pooping in her crate again, despite all the changes we've made. Time for additional help!
    Do you know of Cesar Millan? He has a show, The Dog Whisperer, on the National Geographic Channel. He is a dog behaviorist in L.A.. Anyway, I've seen his show several times and think he's excellent. I had a phone consult with him tonight about Lily. Here's what he said:
    She does have separation anxiety. He agrees that switching to a better quality food will help (I've decided on Nutro Lamb and Rice, which I'll get this week after my paycheck) reduce the amount of feces she's producing. He also said that exercising her and draining her energy will help with digestion and to keep her calm while she's alone. Because she's a crazy, hyper puppy, he suggests getting her a backpack and weight it down a bit with bottled water. Carrying the extra weight will help tire her out more quick. He called it "Challenge the Pit Bull."
    I have also started another game with her that tires her out in about 10 minutes. I put an otoman in the hall from the living room to the dining room and throw her toy for her to retieve. She has to jump the otoman going and coming, so she get worn out very quickly. She loves the game (and would probably do really well at agility).
    Will let you know how all of this goes in a few days.
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
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    #8

    Dec 21, 2004, 06:37 AM
    Separation anxiety is nothing but a fancy way of saying like all dogs, she has a need for company. A tired puppy is a good puppy. Make the most of the time you can spend with her. A good trick for when you must leave her is to fill a kong with peanut butter. She will work for hours licking it out.
    tiger_3leg's Avatar
    tiger_3leg Posts: 31, Reputation: 2
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    #9

    Dec 21, 2004, 08:03 PM
    I wish the Kong would keep her busy that long! With the Pit Bull comes a very long tongue, so it's very easy for her to get the PB out quickly! Not to mention, she just split her Kong in half yesterday! Got her a new Nylabone for "powerful chewers" and that keeps her occupied for a little while.
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
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    #10

    Dec 21, 2004, 08:20 PM
    If you freeze it, it takes longer.
    hollyt's Avatar
    hollyt Posts: 7, Reputation: 1
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    #11

    Mar 26, 2007, 01:51 PM
    Oh my gosh... I am experiencing the Same situation with our 7 mo. Old Australian Shepherd. Ugh- it is so frustrating.

    Our dog really just recently started pooping in his crate- about a month ago. (WHY, WHY, WHY?? )We have not changed his feeding times or amounts (except according to the bag for weight of dog)- are feeding him lamb based raw meat food- ridiculously expensive, recommended by our vet and trainer, and are letting him out to pee and poop just before bed- LATE around 11:00.

    Almost every day we wake up to poop, poop, and more poop. I share your misery in the situation, as it is so frustrating and disappointing.

    We have tried... letting him sleep outside of his crate, on his usual pillow on the floor- only to find SOOOO many things from our daughter's playroom chewed up/destroyed. We've also put him outside to sleep in his dog run- where he digs like crazy and has been barking like mad. (In all actuality, we felt to guilty to leave him out there because we live near the mountains where it occasionally gets really misty/dewy and the run is placed in the dirt- not so fun when your dog is covered in dirt from digging all night.) Yes, he poops here too. Needless to say, that didn't last long.

    I suppose we'll give the crate another try. I like the idea of wearing him out just before bed, but in all honesty... he's an Aussie--- I spend my entire day trying to wear him out. No matter how much excersise, it never seems to be enough.:confused:

    So I thought dogs were supposed to sleep all night long and NOT poop where they sleep?? We crate him late and let him out around 7am. Should we be getting up in the middle of the night to let him out and do his business?? We have a toddler at home who sleeps better than our dog. It is unbelievable. Help!!
    labman's Avatar
    labman Posts: 10,580, Reputation: 551
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    #12

    Mar 26, 2007, 03:58 PM
    Unfortunately in the 2 years since the last post to this thread, I haven't discovered any easy cure. As with most sudden behavior changes, a vet check can't hurt. It is possible he has decided he is a big boy now and doing it delibertly to show his independence. If it is a challenge to your leadership, neutering him should make a big difference. It is no cure all, but does help with many problems.

    It may require better leadership on your part too. Dogs see all the people and dogs in the household as a pack with each having their own rank in the pack and a top dog. Life is much easier if the 2 legged pack members outrank the 4 legged ones. You can learn to play the role of top dog by reading some books or going to a good obedience class. A good obedience class or book is about you being top dog, not about rewarding standard commands with a treat. Start at Raising Your Dog with the Monks of New Skete For more on being top dog, see Establishing and Keeping Alpha Position

    Have you talked to the trainer about it?
    pkenyon's Avatar
    pkenyon Posts: 2, Reputation: 1
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    #13

    Jan 8, 2008, 07:45 AM
    OK - I figured it out. My dog (older puppy) was fine for the first two months. Suddenly, pooping in crate, smearing it, all covered - ugh! My husband kept wanting to bring the dog to the vet - but I knew it was behavioral. So - last night we went to the pet store and got that toy that is made of rubber and you can put snacks in it. It takes lots of thought and work for the dog to get the treat out of the rubber ball thing. I just knew he was bored and this was his way of telling us. So - usually I stay up with him all night (since this pooping behavior) and let him out every three hours. Last night, I gave him the toy (with three little treats in it) and went to bed. This morning, the treats were out of the ball and eated and there was not a bit of poop. Of course, I forgot to reward him, since I was barely awake. I should have done the whole "good doggie" thing.

    I do not even know who makes this rubber ball, so I am not trying to sell it. I am just saying that it is good for a dog that needs to use his mind and teeth to stay out of trouble.

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