Will the united states ever have universal healthcare?

As far as I know, you would need a time machine to answer that question with a 100% conviction.

In the meantime, Barrack Obama is saying that he is trying to get it, there is tons of controversy, and nothing is really finalized (as far as I know) yet.

The majority of Americans don't want it. But it's very possible it could be imposed on us.

Hello m:

The majority of Americans want it. The beginnings of it will probably pass this year.

excon

Close to 70% of Americans have said that they are satisified with their current medical system. 80% have stated that there is no MEDICAL CRISIS that is driving Obama's policies. 60% say that they would like to see changes and reforms in the medical system that would lower costs and increase accessibility but SEE NO EMERGENCY NEED to do so. And 67% of Americans have said that they are against Obamacare in its various legislative forms currently in debate.

But it is still possible, despite the overwhelming lack of support for it, that Obamacare will pass anyway.

Elliot

Can you site a poll that says that they want Obamacare? Or any form of Nationalized health care?

Yes, there are plenty of people who want reform... but when examined, the vast majority of them support the CONSERVATIVE-PROPOSED reforms that Tom and I have listed... towit:

1) Make the cost of it tax-free. That automatically lowers the effective cost by 15-30%. That will make it more affordable to more people.
2) Create tax exempt Medical Savings Accounts
3) Lower taxes so that more have the disposable income to afford health care
4) Modify Medicare and Medicaid to cover those that SHOULD be covered under these programs but are not
5) Tort reform, if properly enacted, could lower medical spending by as much as 60%, especially in "high risk" specialties.
6) DEREGULATE the medical industry. Useless regulation costs money that could be spent better actually HEALING people.
7) De-unionize the hospitals. Union benefits cost a fortune. Union contracts require minimum numbers of employees even if those employees are redundant or not needed. That costs money that could be better spent elsewhere.
8) As an ABSOLUTE LAST RESORT, the government could give uninsured citizens a stipend to pay for their health insurance (adjustable based on family size). This stipend would have a time limitation built in so that it doesn't become an "evergreen" welfare program. But it will give families some time to get their feet back under them after a job loss that lasts more than a couple of months by allowing them to purchase the insurance plan of their choice. It is NOT meant to be a permanent benefit and should have a cut-off of, say, 18 months or 2 years. After that, you're on COBRA and pay for your insurance yourself.
9) Since private insurance is cheaper when you have group coverage, let everyone who is collecting unemployment insurance in every state form their own group via the state unemployment office. This group can then find the group coverage that suits them best. Even if they have to pay out of pocket, they'll be paying group rates that are cheaper than trying to pay the individual rate.
10) Create a "build-your-own-policy" service. It allows people to get the coverage they want and need without having to pay for the stuff they don't want or need. This can make policies WAY cheaper while still providing the coverage needed.
11) Keep the government out of running health care!! Government is the least productive and most wasteful organization in existence. It should not be used to try to bring efficiency to any part of the economy, much less the health care industry.

These are the reforms that most Americans want... not a government takeover of the medical system.

Elliot

Hello H:

Close to 70% of conservatives make up numbers. Otherwise, why don't they cite their source?

The numbers that interest me, and should interest you, are the numbers we got in the last election. Obama won with 52% of the vote. Therefore, I'd say that 52% of the American people support his policies.

excon

Lol ;that's hilarious . President Bush won in 2004 and yet that did nothing to help him get Social Security reform passed ;even though he made it the centerpiece of his 2005 legislative agenda.

Hello again, tom:

That's because his centerpiece was dufusorian in its breadth and scope. Whereas, health care reform is a necessity.

What is it about going broke, like we just did, so appeals to you right wingers?

excon

That doesn't tell us anything about what people think about natiuonalized health care.

Obama is only looking at that 52% number from 2008 too. That's why he's going to lose. He's stuck in the past, just like you are, and isn't able to deal with the changing landscape.

Obama is indeed the bringer of change. He's changing the political landscape from liberal to conservative. And he can't see it any better than you can.

So you just keep relying on that 52% number from 2008. Keep ignoring the fact that Obama's personal poll numbers are dropping like a stone to well below 50% from 65%+ back in April, support for his health plan is in the low 30s and dropping, and his "wrong-track" numbers are well over 55%.

And the Dem Congress is in even worse shape. Remember the sweep of the Congress in 2008 by the Dems? Predictions right now are for a massive Republican sweep in 2010 to take back Congress.

If Obama manages to pass national health care, you can consider it the death knell of the Democrat party. Especially on top of TARP, TARP2, the Stimulus Bill, the Omnibus Bill, Cap & Trade, and the government takeovers of priivate industry. It'll take the Reps years, maybe even decades, to repair the damage. But the Reps will be guaranteed to be in power for decades to fix it. As much as people didn't like Bush, they never believed that Obama would ever do the crazy things he's done... and now they'll forevern take a Republican they can't stand over a Democrat they don't trust.

The Dems are done if Obamacare passes.

Elliot

Hello again, El:

Wrong again. The Dems are done if Obamacare fails.

excon

It beats the hell out of someone increasing the national deficit 800% in one year while we are broke.

People can understand a business cycle that includes recessions and even depressions. What they can't handle is someone who INCREASES spending by 800% while it's happening.

Elliot

That too.

They've pretty much trapped themselves.

If they win the issue, they lose independents and blue-dog Dems and therefore lose the elections.

If they lose the issue, they lose their far left which is DEMANDING national health care by any means necessary. The unions and the Moveon.org types are already talking about abandoning them and pulling their support for the Dems in Congress if Obamacare doesn't pass.

The dems are done. They had 4 years to screw things up in Congress, and they did so with great aplomb. They created their own no-win environment.

This is exactly what Tom, Steve and I predicted during 2008... that the Dems would have one chance, and they would screw it up massively.

Elliot

Hey where are these things in HR 3200, as well as health insuurance portability and nationally / across state lines?






G&P

That's kind of the point, ITB.

They are perfectly good, relatively low-cost, FREE-MARKET solutions to health care reform, but nobody on the left even wants to talk about them.

Why not?

Elliot

A friend sent me this email. I went to the link and read the whole thing. You should too.

Obamacare

I thought you might find the following article from snopes.com interesting: This article explains obamacare and tells what part of healthcare has already been voted on when it was hidden in the stimulus bill passed earlier. snopes.com: Dr. Dave Janda - The One Word to Describe Obamacare

This article makes exactly the same points I have been making.

Speaking of Democrats trapping themselves, just look at the two faces of Barack Obama. He has taken to using "diametrically opposed claims in the same speech in order to argue for his policies."

This is the theme of the week by the way, the rousing success of Medicare. I heard Anthony Weiner (D-NY) arguing this same point this morning, how efficient Medicare is - while admitting they were going to have to cut services to "bend the cost-curve" as Obama would put it (which is a huge reason to be suspicious of the "death commission"). It was also argued for in Huffpo yesterday.

So that's the latest theme, we'll take a "successful" albeit broke, unfunded program and expand it to everyone with the necessary cuts to "bend the cost-curve" and all will be "well."

Oh, wonderful. I wonder who came up with the brilliant idea to use a bankrupt government program as a model for success?

Could it be the same speech-writer that told Obama to use the Postal Service's competition with FEDEX, DHL and UPS as an example of what happens when government and the private sector compete?

Elliot

Something like that. Either these guys are really clueless or think they think we are. Maybe some of both.