Hello:

There are a couple of things I don't understand about the health care debate.

1) Everyone is talking about what happens if you don't have insurance. And everyone seems to think the government is going to offer their own version. I have heard this too.

Yet, nobody is talking about what type of plan the government will offer.

Simple questions such as:

What will the monthly premium be?
How much will the deductible be?
Will there be an out of pocket maximum, and if so, what will it be?
Will there be a prescription plan, and if so, how much will they cost?
What will the co-insurance rate be? (i.e. 20%)?
Can we see doctors we choose?
Will we need a referral to see a specialist?
What's not covered?

Furthermore, and this may not apply to everyone, but if anyone out there is opposed to any medical health plan provided by the government for the uninsured (what ever that health plan may be) and yet you are on social security and medicare (disabled and retired) then

SIT DOWN and BE QUIET.

There is a member of my family who hates Obama with a passion, and complains about his every move. And of course, this health care thing is on the top of his list.
Yet he is on disability and medicare, with humama.

Sorry, how can he debate this, when he himself brags about his wonderful health care plan, that is 100 times better and cheaper than my private plan at work.

I'm not saying that government run health care isn't socialist. I am saying that so is social security and medicare, yet nobody is complaining about that. The only thing they complain about is the fact that social security and medicare might not be around much longer due to lack of funds....

HUH???

Just come out and say it medicare people- you're fine with you're socialist health care plan, but you don't wan't younger, healthier uninured people to have it?

Before the 30's there was no social security. You worked, until you could work no more, and if you were lucky, you stashed a little money away somewhere to live off of, most just moved in with one of the kids for them to take care of.

I have insurance now, but it wasn't long ago, I remember not having insurance, and it was that way for many years. Once I got very sick one October, while making $5.15 per hour. Dealth with that for 5 days, once my temprature got up to 104.5. But never went to the doctor. And fewer and fewer employers are offering health care to their employee's. At least I have been hard pressed to find one that does.

I'mm worried about this new government health care because I don't know enough about it, nobody is saying how much it will cost me. No one is giving any details, other than "it's socialist".

My official posistion:

If I can get a better plan through the government for my entire family at a cost of less than $800 per month, then sign me up, because that's what I'm paying Anthem for a $2000 deductable plan.

ETWolverine

This is like your "right to health care" argument. Just because it isn't in the Constitution doesn't mean it doesn't exist, and it comes from the 9th Amendment which doesn't actually create any rights.

This too... just because it doesn't list a method of appeals for the government system, while it DOES list a method of appeals for private insurance, doesn't mean that there ISN'T such an appeals process.

Well then tell me why they left that little thing off the bill? If it is something SO IMPORTANT that it is the very thing that makes most people scared of a government health system, why didn't they list a method of appeals for the goverment system? Especially since they took the time to list it for the private system.

Dude... your logic is like Swiss cheese. So full of holes.

Elliot

N0help4u

Here is what people that want the government health care don't seem to get.

People complain about welfare moms getting foodstamps out of their tax dollars as it is but with the health care they will also be paying 'tax' dollars for people like me that have to be covered but don't have the income to get health coverage. So with this new system welfare will be forced to cover any one that doesn't qualify under the current qualifications standards. So thats how many million people that will then be put on the welfare medical?

excon

Hello again, El:

They did. It's in the Constitution, specifically in the First Amendment where it says "...Congress shall make NO LAW PROHIBITING.... the right of the people to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

It couldn't be clearer. Yet, you think they're gonna write a bill that says otherwise....

Of course, they're NOT gonna write a bill that says otherwise, and watching you TWIST the language to say they DID is the most fun I've had in decades.

Don't you get tired of grasping at these straws???? But, I'm loving it, for one.

excon

ETWolverine

They're not straws. Again, go "petition" to the IRS for an appeal of a decision. See what the outcome is.

And again, what is the method of appeals for the government system. They clearly show it for the private insurers, but they make NO MENTION of the method for the "public option". Why not? If it is mandated by the 1st Amendment, as you suggest, why didn't they list the methodology in the bill like they did for the private health insurers?

Were they afraid that this 1000+ page bill was going to be too long and that people wouldn't have time to read it?

Elliot

excon

Hello again, El:

Why didn't they write something they don't have to write?? Is that your question??? Well, I can't answer that one, dude.

excon

speechlesstx

Speaking of welfare medical...

speechlesstx

Thanks for finally supporting the masses confronting their elected leaders. Now if we can just get all those bloggers, journalists, overpaid actors, the DNC, the Speaker of the House, the Senate Majority Leader and others like Durbin to support the constitution we might get somewhere.

Now here's another interesting aspect of Obamacare...

Health Care Bill Would Allow Feds To Snoop in Your Checkbook

Are you troubled yet, ex?

ETWolverine

I know you can't. Which just proves my point.

They didn't HAVE to write it about the private insurance companies either. Every single one of them already has a system of appeals in place.

The government, though... they're starting from scratch. They have NOTHING in place. Don't you think it behooves them to detail the methods by which we will be able to appeal their decisions when nobody knows what it is?

Unless they don't WANT to detail such a system for us. And if not... why not?

If you take the time and effort to list the system of appeals for one, you SHOULD be listing the system of appeals for the other as well. That's just logical. Unless there isn't such a system.

ETWolverine

For excon's benefit, here's the exact wording:

• ‘‘(D) enable the real-time (or near real time) determination of an individual’s financial responsibility at the point of service and, to the extent possible, prior to service, including whether the individual is eligible for a specific service with a specific physician at a specific facility, which may include utilization of a machine-readable health plan beneficiary identification card;"

That means they get to check your personal records, including your bank records, employment records, income history, etc. to determine if you are capable of paying for the service, and how much.

And I thought that the whole point of this plan was to make sure that nobody had to worry about paying at the point of service. You pay taxes for a universal health care system so that you don't have to pay anything at the doctor's office.

Yet now we're being told that they're going to look at our private records in order to determine what we can afford to pay, even AFTER we're in the system.

Huh?

What's going on here?

Violations of our privacy and we STILL have to pay for the medical services?

This comprehensive health care reform bill doesn't seem very comprehensive to me.

More like APrehensive.

Or are these lies too? Even though it's straight out of the bill. (Page 58)

Elliot

PS: I'm actually less worried about the idea of a machine-readable medical plan ID card. I already have a driver's license and social security card, so it's a bit late to worry about the government finding me. A card that has my MEDICAL data on it is actually a GOOD idea... good data on ER patients as they are entering the hospital could save lots of lives. I'm actually good with that part. I just wish it wouldn't be the government running the system.

excon

Hello again, El:

Please pay attention. I dunno how you missed civics 101, but let's review.... The Bill of Rights grants CITIZENS rights. It does NOT grant corporations rights. Therefore, if they wanted an appeal system for CORPORATIONS, they most certainly DID have to write it in.

But, I'm here, diligently catching all the BS you can throw. Lemme ask you this again. IF you have such GOOD arguments about why health care needs to be defeated, why do you need to make stuff up all the time???

Go ahead, do like tom did. Tell us how the Democrats want this bill so they can kill old people... Go on. I dare ya!

excon