Parental rights

speechlesstx · Jun 2, 2009, 06:27 AM

In another thread I complained of groups like PP imposing their agenda on our children without regard to parental values. Don't worry about it I was told, who's saying the parents can't be the parents? Here we go...

Quote:

Calif. District Creates Primary School Gay Curriculum

Monday, June 1, 2009 3:24 PM

By: Rick Pedraza

Elementary school teachers in Alameda, Calif., will introduce lesson plans to their educational curriculum beginning next year that address gay and lesbian issues, KCBS News in San Francisco reports.

Kindergarten through grade 5 students throughout the county will be exposed to same-sex educational material aimed at promoting tolerance and inclusiveness.

The curriculum –– which will include lessons to introduce students to “LGBT” (lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transsexual) issues –– will be designed to discourage bullying and teasing based on gay and lesbian stereotypes. The plan will be implemented despite objections by parents who complain children are too young to be exposed to the material.

Many parents are condemning the lesson plan as sex education in disguise and are angered that they will not be allowed to exempt their children from the lessons. Opponents decry the curriculum plan as an effort to advance the gay, lesbian and transgendered agenda.

Those opposed to sexual orientation lessons for children are so upset they are threatening to sue the school board, ABC News reports. Promoting gay, lesbian and sexual orientation should be a parents' rights issue, parents say, and is not an appropriate topic for school children.

The Alameda school district's legal counsel, however, recommended the plan because the curriculum does not deal with health or sex education, which are topics that do require opt-out provisions.

“It was the opinion of our legal counsel that this curriculum was not health or sex education curriculum,” school board president Mike McMahon told CNS New.

“If a student responds that one family in the book is made up of a mother, a father, and two children and a cat, you may acknowledge that some families look like this, but ask students for other examples of what a family can look like.”

School Board Member Trish Spencer, who voted against the plan, said she worries that its implementation could lead to the harassment of students who have religious objections to homosexuality. She cited that bullying due to religion is a bigger problem for the district than bullying based on homosexuality.

Also adamantly opposed to the plan is Randy Thomasson, president of the Campaign for Children and Families.

“This will be done whether parents like it or not, and it shows the hostility against parental rights and traditional family values,” Thomasson, told CNS New.

Last month, the California Supreme Court upheld Proposition 8, the voter-approved initiative to make same-sex marriage illegal that passed in November.

The Alameda school board said it will review its decision to implement the curriculum at the end of next year’s school session.

Is it the public school's place to instill their values in our children in spite of parental objections - or at all? Or does the public 'benefit' outweigh parental rights?

For all of you who think government should get out of the marriage business, should they get out of the parenting business such as this example, too?

spitvenom · Jun 4, 2009, 11:58 AM

Ex is right being gay is not learned. My uncle is gay he watched me all the time as a kid guess what I'm not gay. Here is a little light read for you describing how a gay man's brain looks a lot like a woman's brain.

A Gay Man’s Brain Looks a Lot Like a Straight Woman’s Brain | 80beats | Discover Magazine

ETWolverine · Jun 4, 2009, 12:33 PM

Alright, this is getting out of hand. For some reason, as soon as someone says that "being gay isn't learned", somehow everyone believes it.

Sorry, but there is no strong evidence to prove that fact.

There is a guy by the name of Dr. Patrick Carnes, a PhD (psychology) who specializes in sexual addictions and abnormalities. He has written many books on the subject of sexual addictions, and his seminal work is called "Out of the Shadows", and describes sexual addition.

Within his writings he speaks about the "arrousal template" of his patients, and how, in most cases, he can trace a person's arrousal template to specific incidents from the patients' pasts. That is, how a person is sexually arroused today is affected by what they have experienced in the past.

A person who is arroused by S&M or bondage might have experienced being tied up as a child, or even just seen pictures or read stories of someone else being tied up. It doesn't even have to be in a sexual context. However, within their minds the act of being tied up or tying up others became sexually arousing.

A woman who tends to find herself in multiple abusive relationships may have had abusive parents who treated her the same way her significant other does now. Or her teachers might have told her she was a bad girl who needs to be punished, and she believed it. Or she may have had an experience that linked abuse with acceptance... a close "friend" who had emotional power over her by treating her like crap. In any case, past experience leads to current behaviors.

A homosexual might have seen someone of the same sex who for some reason was sexually arousing. Again, the context may not have been sexual, but the link between same-sex and sexual arousal was built on that "template".

The evidence of this is annecdotal at this point. There is, to my best knowledge, no solid evidence of the "arrousal template" concept based on hard numbers. It's hard to get hard numbers on this stuff because the topic is so touchy. But it is a hypothesis that most therapists of patients in abusive relationships accept as valid. They use that information to understand their patients better. And at least in the cases put forth by Carnes, the hypothesis seems to hold true for the vast majority of patients.

What this means is that homosexuality is NOT necessarily a "natural", unlearned behavior, but most likely also has an experiential component.

Spit, if you like stuff about brainscans, I suggest that you check out the works of Dr. Daniel Amen. What he has found using live SPECT scans is that sex addicts, drug addicts, food addicts, bulemics, anorexics, and people suffering from body dysmorphia all have similar brain scans. Interesting stuff, and important too, because what it means is that there is a similarity between sexual "abnormality" and other forms of mental illness and addiction. There is a similar split between the frontal lobe and the cortex. Which means there is a split between the part of the brain that makes decisions and the the part that has memories and critical thinking processes. If we can cure one, we might be able to find cures for the others. And if we find the CAUSE of one, we might be able to find the causes of the others. Wild stuff.

Elliot

spitvenom · Jun 4, 2009, 12:43 PM

Thanks ET I am going to look it up.

speechlesstx · Jun 4, 2009, 01:40 PM

I don't care if homosexuality is learned or not, public schools have NO business undermining parental rights. Freedom is messy, remember? If you don't like that I teach my kids traditional values then I have 3 words for you. Get over it.

cozyk · Jun 4, 2009, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETWolverine

I didn't say that they couldn't have a family. I said that they cannot have children on their own without 3rd party intervention of some sort.

Do you also say that hetero couples that can't have their own bio children aren't a real family.

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Aren't they? If they are saying that gay families are "just like everyone else", isn't that the same as saying that "kissing other boys is okay" because it's no different than "kissing girls"? And if they are teaching this to MY child and I don't think that it is okay, isn't that a usurpation of my parental rights?

"Kissing other boys" is not something a son would do or not do based on what they were taught. If a son is gay, he is likely to eventually kiss another boy. If he is not gay, he will not be kissing another boy. What sex you are attracted to is not taught. It is felt and nothing you do or don't do is going to sway their sexual preference. A FULL education about sex can only be beneficial to everyone. Keeping STDs at bay, unwanted pregnancies at bay, and abortions down. Looks like you would be all over that.

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No they are not. They are teaching an opinion... that a gay family is "just the same" as a traditional family. That is NOT a factual statement because from a biological perspective the two are NOT the same. Ergo, it is NOT a fact, it is an opinion.

I agree with you. They are NOT the same. BUT, they are just as valid. Love and commitment can be the same as any hetero couple. The ability to raise happy healthy children can be the same

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Perhaps my children and grandchildren will see me that way. BUT IT IS NOT YOUR JOB TO CHANGE THAT. It is THEIR decision how to view me, not yours. Nor is it your job to try to "counteract" what I want my kids to learn and live by.

Once again, no matter what they "learn". They will be what they are. Be it straight or gay. You have no control over that.

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You are trying to use the power of government (in this case the public school system) to push YOUR beliefs on my kids, and I resent it. You do not have the right to brainwash my kids into thinking that homosexuality is "all right" when I don't believe that it is. The government doesn't have that right.

I hope and pray that you don't have a child or other family member that is gay. I have a feeling that you would be singing a different tune. Kinda like Chaney.

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How about instead of trying to teach kids about the environment and tolerance of homosexuality and stuff that doesn't belong in the school system, we instead try to teach kids reading, writing and arithmatic... subjects that we are lagging behind in as compared to every other developed country in the world, because we're too busy teaching kids about the environment and acceptance of gay sexuality.

Or how about giving our children all the benefit of a well rounded education. I agree that to improve on reading writing and arithmatic is very important . Just as important is how to get along in this world with all kinds of people. They will be living in a world occupied with lots of different people with different beliefs. Do you think they can somehow escape this reality?

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Perhaps if we taught kids to read and write, our employees will end up being competitive with their foreign counterparts. OUR SCHOOLS ARE FAILING and the last thing we need are more excuses to waste time on stuff that doesn't help our kids get a friggin job.

There is getting a "friggin job," and then there is keeping a job. Pickens are going to be slim if you continue to shun people that are different from you and being so intollerant is only going to hurt your children.

Elliot[/quote]

speechlesstx · Jun 4, 2009, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cozyk

I hope and pray that you don't have a child or other family member that is gay. I have a feeling that you would be singing a different tune. Kinda like Chaney.

That's mighty condescending and presumptuous.

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Or how about giving our children all the benefit of a well rounded education. I agree that to improve on reading writing and arithmatic is very important . Just as important is how to get along in this world with all kinds of people. They will be living in a world occupied with lots of different people with different beliefs. Do you think they can somehow escape this reality?

They'll also be in a world filled with people pushing their values on them. My home is supposed to be a refuge where we can shield them from values and behaviors we find detrimental to their well-being - where we can guide them as a loving parent should. That is not the school's job. Period.

Quote:

There is getting a "friggin job," and then there is keeping a job. Pickens are going to be slim if you continue to shun people that are different from you and being so intollerant is only going to hurt your children.

I can't wait to see Elliot's response to this, but I wonder why you're so intolerant of our values. That tolerance things cuts both ways.

cozyk · Jun 4, 2009, 02:44 PM

Quote:

I can't wait to see Elliot's response to this, but I wonder why you're so intolerant of our values. That tolerance things cuts both ways.

[/quote]

I'm not intolerant of your values. I'm intolerant of your intolerance of what seems like everything coming and going. You are intolerant of Democrats, Obama, Planned Parenthood, Schools teaching sex ed, abortion, gays, gay marriage, gay rights, and CNN.

It wouldn't surprise me if I could add gun control, evolution, and non- christians to that list. Am I correct?

It seems you will only tolerate what you think is right. Anything else should be prohibited.

speechlesstx · Jun 4, 2009, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cozyk

I'm not intolerant of your values.

Your comments obviously suggest otherwise. You seem to think my values aren't good enough, they must be corrected in the public schools. What's funny here is I don't expect my values to be taught to your kids. Raise them how you want, let us do the same.

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I'm intolerant of your intolerance of what seems like everything coming and going. You are intolerant of Democrats, Obama, Planned Parenthood, Schools teaching sex ed, abortion, gays, gay marriage, gay rights, and CNN.

I'm intolerant of PP for sure, but I get along fine with the libs around me. I've had many gay friends and even some relatives. What I am intolerant of is people forcing an agenda down my throat. I think you are, too.

Quote:

It wouldn't surprise me if I could add gun control, evolution, and non- christians to that list. Am I correct?

It seems you will only tolerate what you think is right. Anything else should be prohibited.

Now you're just being an a$$.

cozyk · Jun 4, 2009, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Now you're just being an a$$.

[/quote]

And you are avoiding the question.

speechlesstx · Jun 4, 2009, 04:29 PM

And you are avoiding the question.[/quote]

The difference between you and I is I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, I don't judge you for things not in evidence. I deserve the same courtesy.



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