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Home > Forum Community > Member Discussions > Current Events   »   Opting out of nationalized health care

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Old Oct 28, 2009, 10:04 PM
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Opting out of nationalized health care

I'm curious whether Congress, in its wisdom, will enhance federalism by allowing states to (somehow) opt out of mandatory health care. It sounds like a progressive paradox, a little sugar to help swallow a bitter pill. But might Congress unintentionally provide ammo to the 10th amendment believers who wish to construct a wall of separation between the federal and state governments? "I am in favor of the clear, bold step represented by HCR 50, introduced by Representative Creighton, and co-authored by Representative Guillen. It’s clear that this is not a partisan issue: it concerns all Americans, and all Texans.

"The Tenth Amendment was enacted by folks who remembered what it was like to be under the thumb of a distant, all-powerful government. Unfortunately, the protections it guarantees have melted away over time."
Office of the Governor Rick Perry - Speeches - Gov. Perry Speaks in Support of States' Rights

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Old Oct 30, 2009, 05:54 AM   #21  
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The bill exploded to almost 2000 pages. I'm sure all the Reps. will read it with a fine tooth comb before voting on it.
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 07:14 AM   #22  
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For anyone who cares to read the Bill, it is HR 3962. Here's a link to the PDF. 1990 pages long. Have fun...

http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

Elliot
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 07:14 AM   #23  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by excon View Post
Hello again, George:

Then opting in or out ain't gonna matter too much if they're gonna knock you off anyway.

excon
As we are finding out, the IRS will be monitoring the usage of health care. It will be a simple interface for the IRS to perform a cursory cost/benefit analysis to see whether the patient/taxpayer is costing more than he is worth (anyone who thinks this is 'insurance' is on weed or just plain stupid). How efficient and fascistic things will be; and the multitudes will sing: Glory, glory to Obama; Glory, glory to Obama, ... (to the tune of ... oh, you know).
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 07:34 AM   #24  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George_1950 View Post
As we are finding out, the IRS will be monitoring the usage of health care. It will be a simple interface for the IRS to perform a cursory cost/benefit analysis to see whether the patient/taxpayer is costing more than he is worth (anyone who thinks this is 'insurance' is on weed or just plain stupid).
Hello again, George:

Here's the good news. I'M certainly NOT going to be one of those who are worthy, so they'll knock me, and the other stupid ones off straight away. When the government has taken care of that, you can change it back, cause there won't be anyone left to oppose it.

excon
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Old Oct 30, 2009, 07:49 AM   #25  
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No, man. The 'good news' will be the American folks aren't going to stand for it. Hopefully, these bridges will never be crossed. I'm betting on the pursuit of happiness rather than the prospect of security.
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Old Oct 31, 2009, 04:11 AM   #26  
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meanwhile there is good news for Canadians .They average waiting list has dropped to only 4 months(six months in Newfoundland) !!!

Waiting Your Turn: Hospital Waiting Lists in Canada, 19th Edition

That's a drop of a critical 1 week!!!
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Old Oct 31, 2009, 07:05 PM   #27  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ETWolverine View Post
For anyone who cares to read the Bill, it is HR 3962. Here's a link to the PDF. 1990 pages long. Have fun...

http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

Elliot
Big Government Blog Archive Pelosi Health Care Bill Blows a Kiss to Trial Lawyers


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Section 2531, entitled “Medical Liability Alternatives,” establishes an incentive program for states to adopt and implement alternatives to medical liability litigation. [But]…… a state is not eligible for the incentive payments if that state puts a law on the books that limits attorneys’ fees or imposes caps on damages.


American Thinker Blog: Health care reform targets...vending machines?



BREAKING: Comprehensive List of Taxes<br> In House Democrat Health Bill

Quote:
This gargantuan beast contains thirteen new tax hikes.

I'm sure there are plenty of more gems like these.


G&P
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Old Nov 1, 2009, 02:01 AM   #28  
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To answer the question ;yes the death panels remain in HR3962
Pelosi Bill Keeps End-of-Life Planning - CBS News
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Old Nov 1, 2009, 02:37 AM   #29  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
To answer the question ;yes the death panels remain in HR3962
Pelosi Bill Keeps End-of-Life Planning - CBS News
FTA:
Quote:
The provision allows Medicare to pay for voluntary counseling to help beneficiaries deal with the complex and painful decisions families face when a loved one is approaching death.
Yea, that's death panel.
Please spread more FUD tom.
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Old Nov 1, 2009, 03:12 AM   #30  
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ok

Here are some hidden tax increases in the bill compiled by Americans for Tax Reform :
Employer Mandate Excise Tax (Page 275): If an employer does not pay 72.5 percent of a single employee’s health premium (65 percent of a family employee), the employer must pay an excise tax equal to 8 percent of average wages. Small employers (measured by payroll size) have smaller payroll tax rates of 0 percent (<$500,000), 2 percent ($500,000-$585,000), 4 percent ($585,000-$670,000), and 6 percent ($670,000-$750,000).

Individual Mandate Surtax (Page 296): If an individual fails to obtain qualifying coverage, he must pay an income surtax equal to the lesser of 2.5 percent of modified adjusted gross income (MAGI) or the average premium. MAGI adds back in the foreign earned income exclusion and municipal bond interest.

Medicine Cabinet Tax (Page 324): Non-prescription medications would no longer be able to be purchased from health savings accounts (HSAs), flexible spending accounts (FSAs), or health reimbursement arrangements (HRAs). Insulin excepted.

Cap on FSAs (Page 325): FSAs would face an annual cap of $2500 (currently uncapped).

Increased Additional Tax on Non-Qualified HSA Distributions (Page 326): Non-qualified distributions from HSAs would face an additional tax of 20 percent (current law is 10 percent). This disadvantages HSAs relative to other tax-free accounts (e.g. IRAs, 401(k)s, 529 plans, etc.)

Denial of Tax Deduction for Employer Health Plans Coordinating with Medicare Part D (Page 327): This would further erode private sector participation in delivery of Medicare services.

Surtax on Individuals and Small Businesses (Page 336): Imposes an income surtax of 5.4 percent on MAGI over $500,000 ($1 million married filing jointly). MAGI adds back in the itemized deduction for margin loan interest. This would raise the top marginal tax rate in 2011 from 39.6 percent under current law to 45 percent—a new effective top rate.

Excise Tax on Medical Devices (Page 339): Imposes a new excise tax on medical device manufacturers equal to 2.5 percent of the wholesale price. It excludes retail sales and unspecified medical devices sold to the general public.

Corporate 1099-MISC Information Reporting (Page 344): Requires that 1099-MISC forms be issued to corporations as well as persons for trade or business payments. Current law limits to just persons for small business compliance complexity reasons. Also expands reporting to exchanges of property.

Delay in Worldwide Allocation of Interest (Page 345): Delays for nine years the worldwide allocation of interest, a corporate tax relief provision from the American Jobs Creation Act

Limitation on Tax Treaty Benefits for Certain Payments (Page 346): Increases taxes on U.S. employers with overseas operations looking to avoid double taxation of earnings.

Codification of the “Economic Substance Doctrine” (Page 349): Empowers the IRS to disallow a perfectly legal tax deduction or other tax relief merely because the IRS deems that the motive of the taxpayer was not primarily business-related.

Application of “More Likely Than Not” Rule (Page 357): Publicly-traded partnerships and corporations with annual gross receipts in excess of $100 million have raised standards on penalties. If there is a tax underpayment by these taxpayers, they must be able to prove that the estimated tax paid would have more likely than not been sufficient to cover final tax liability.
BREAKING: Comprehensive List of Taxes<br> In House Democrat Health Bill#
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