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excon · Oct 22, 2008, 09:30 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Isn’t that what a friend does more than give money - encourage, support, sympathize, etc.?

Hello Steve:

Not my friends.

excon

Merris · Oct 22, 2008, 09:43 AM

Hey Start. I agree that talking politics stinks. I know how you feel--- hang in there! :)

Originally Posted by startover22

Merris, I should have quoted speechless from the opening post, I was referring to the OP's first remark and question.
As far as funding for research and the preservation of the environment....welp, I agree we need to do a better job of taking care of our earth, every one knows it!

I so wish this were true! I had a chat with my neighbor the other day who is unfortunately the most enthusiastic McCain supporter this side of the Mississippi, and the conversation started about values but ended up with her telling me that more or less people who think about the environment are... worshiping the Earth. Wow. This was the last thing I expected to hear and the thought that immediately came to my head was... There is no hope! She went on to say that some people care more about animals and the Earth than people. I'm astounded and all I could say is that it's all ONE thing. By taking care of the habitat you take care of the animals and the people eat the animals and you take care of the people. Duh. She even claimed Sesame Street was pushing some liberal environmentalist agenda. God help us all.

Originally Posted by startover22

The education system...well, lets start out with the parents that think it's alright for their kids to say and do what ever they want when they are in school...IT MAY MAKE IT EASIER FOR THE TEACHERS TO DO THEIR JOBS, and maybe the kids would learn something!? Teachers of course should have guide lines to follow and so should the students.

If by this you mean beat their little butts... that's not hard for me to disagree with. Kids should be respectful and no teacher should have to put up with abuse. :p In all seriousness I remember we were hit on the back with the dreaded yard stick and had to stand in front of the class holding a pile of dictionaries. These techniques worked for centuries I'm not so sure why they were abandoned. I think punishment with guidelines is a good thing.

Originally Posted by startover22

I am not only referring to welfare....people all around me seem to think everyone owes them something. I work with a guy his girlfriend was abused in a past relationship, she is able to work, but they are trying to find a way to make it a good excuse to get on social security.

I agree with this too. I really don't mind, though, paying taxes for community enrichment, or for projects that I feel make a better environment for families. I'm not for more free handouts and I don't think most liberals are. For instance, I really think Obama's plan of community service for teens in exchange for a college tuition credit is great. It helps education, it gives teens more responsibility in the community and the community also gets something back. McCain is offering nothing like this. I feel that Liberals are more thinkers when it comes to social problems whereas republicans either throw a scant amount of money toward the problem with no thought at all OR say what they want to happen like No Child Left Behind and then leave the funding behind. Either way they are not solving any of the problems nor is it really a priority for them.

As for people wanting a free ride I wonder, myself, if this is born of apathy? People are apathetic about the government because many feel like it doesn't represent them, like they don't have a voice. I myself as a woman have joked that life under republicans is like being the wife of a patriarchal gun collector! :p I think inclusion will give people more pride and less apathy. When you are proud of something you tend to take better care of it, too.

I have given thought to this entitlement attitude and it bothers me too. I wonder if there's a connection with the fact that Americans are getting a LOT for free which further spawns feelings of entitlement.

You know I really connect with you on many levels and I agree with you. I do think, though, that having a leader who inspires our young people and whose umbrella covers everyone is what we need as a nation now. I was more of a Hillary supporter truth be told and then I saw this video. It just touched me... these children need Obama. I watched this and I felt this hope and I felt like I didn't want to let these young people down. We all go back and forth about the taxes but when it boils down to it I don't think it's about the money. There are other qualities about Obama that would be sooo good for our nation. I hope anyone reading this if you are on the fence, please please please consider this. I'm pretty moderate when it comes to taxes and have voiced before that I'd be interested in the fair tax. I think this is more about giving people hope and about bringing our country together. It's about connecting with a younger generation and yes, happiness... and I think we can all agree that money doesn't buy you that.

Please America... Vote Obama 08.

speechlesstx · Oct 22, 2008, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello Steve:

Not my friends.

Maybe you need some better friends.

Galveston1 · Oct 22, 2008, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by Merris

You know the spending I care most about is federal funding for research for the preservation of the environment, alternative energy, and other species (humans aren't the only creatures on the planet, you know). I think we need a better education system in the U.S. and we lag behind other industrialized countries in not only education but our infant mortality is one of the highest of any industrialized nation.

You seem to be referring to welfare, which is pretty small sliver of what I'm talking about.

You may not be old enough to remember when public education started down the toilet, but I do. It was when the F(ederal) A(id) T(o) E(ducation) began. The federals in effect took the schools away from the sates and local authorities and we now have a disaster.

If pro is the opposite of con, then what is the opposite of progress? Why, CONGRESS, of course!

I have a theory. It is mine alone! Ancient Egypt had both a written language and a pictorial language. My theory says that Egypt was doing well with their written language UNTIL it turned education over to the central government, and after some years, so many people couldn't read that they had to develop a pictorial language. (Have you noticed the road signs going from written to pictorial in the last 25 years or so?)

inthebox · Oct 22, 2008, 04:48 PM

Originally Posted by Merris

John McCain wants a complete domestic spending freeze with the exception of the wars and veterans... that 7% of the population he actually cares about.

Links?

The POTUS has to have the courage to say the right thing, although that may not be the popular thing.

How do you think debt is paid if spending is not cut or frozen?

The 94 "Contract with America" was successful in creating a surplus because it forced fiscal responsibility. Welfare reform was undertaken, though not popular by some points of views, but in the end it was the successful and right thing to do. Reagan tax cuts in the 80s were not popular among some, but it got the economy going compared to the Carter years. The same thing can be said of JFK's tax cuts.

And the question is why not veterans and the military.
1] We are fighting wars, and they keep us safe. A constitutional mandate.
2] For those who gave life and or limb in service to our country is it too much to ask to give back to those who give/ gave us so much?

Merris · Oct 22, 2008, 05:02 PM

Originally Posted by inthebox

Links?

The POTUS has to have the courage to say the right thing, although that may not be the popular thing.

How do you think debt is paid if spending is not cut or frozen?

The 94 "Contract with America" was sucessful in creating a surplus because it forced fiscal responsibility.
And the question is why not veterans and the military.
1] We are fighting wars, and they keep us safe. A constitutional mandate.
2] For those who gave life and or limb in service to our country is it to much to ask to give back to those who give/ gave us so much?

You need links? LOL. This is what the man has been saying in every debate. Have you not watched the debates? And while I honor veterans, (my dad is one and I grew up on a military base) I think McCain's emphasis is so narrow and so ridiculous that people are angry. He's just out of touch... After hearing about many republicans including friends and relatives that I personally know, voting for Obama because they are actually EXCITED about his ideas (he actually is the one who has some in this contest after all). I honestly don't think McCain has a chance.

Maybe we should change the subject to sports and leisure? Heheh...

startover22 · Oct 23, 2008, 02:03 PM

Merris, I wish I could do what you guys do to quote separately, but I don't know how, so bear with me;)
First I would like to say out loud what I was thinking. Regarding how much I dislike politics, and how hard it is to gather all this info from ALL sides. To me it is like a football game (any game really but I love football) Anyway, pretend your team was playing and mine were playing against you, just because you start to win, I don't suddenly start to root for your team, I get pissed at my own team or I turn off the game if I know you are going to win. (not saying I don't give credit where credit is due, I just don't root for your team) I hope that makes sense to you in some respect.

I know how frustrating it can be talking to ignorant people. Your neighbor and the guy I work with to be correct. BUT we can't label our republican and democrats in that sense.
Each person is different and I have come to value that and try my hardest not to be so damn judgmental;)

No, I don't trust anyone beating my kids butt. I have given a little whoopin or two in between my 14 years of being a mother and after having four kids, I realize this is not the best tactic with all kids. I just think teaching your child from an early age between right and wrong is imparitive. I also think that if a kid gets in trouble at school, well, you should deal with it at home as well, I mean for goodness sakes, try and teach a class of over 30 kids with a few that disrupt the class on a daily basis. It is hard I am sure.

As far as the tax thing goes, people that do not pay taxes should not get a free ride. I don't see any argument that makes this reasonable. I can't fathom it at all.

For about two months I caught hell here at home and with my friends and other family because I was trying hard to give Obama the benefit of the doubt. In my heart I just knew I was uncomfortable, but I wanted to prove to myself that I could go and actually understand where he is coming from. I was mostly doing it so I could hear others reasonable counter act what I was TRYING to believe, because like any other American I want change. But not "just because!!" We don't always get what we want. I want to change if the change is absolute, and with Obama it just isn't in my eyes.

Sorry to offend if I have, every man for his own. Charities are for people to give if they WANT to. I have and will continue to help where I can, money and time.

Abortion is another seriously strong subject for me with Obama. I am pro-choice... but he takes pro-choice way way too far for me to understand.

Good luck to both parties, and a good four years to come no matter who is in office;)

speechlesstx · Oct 23, 2008, 02:50 PM

Startover, see that little icon at the top that looks like a cartoon bubble? Hold your left mouse button and drag over a section to highlight what you want to quote then click that icon.

Wondergirl · Oct 23, 2008, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Merris

I do think, though, that having a leader who inspires our young people and whose umbrella covers everyone is what we need as a nation now....We all go back and forth about the taxes but when it boils down to it I don't think it's about the money. There are other qualities about Obama that would be sooo good for our nation. I hope anyone reading this if you are on the fence, please please please consider this. I'm pretty moderate when it comes to taxes and have voiced before that I'd be interested in the fair tax. I think this is more about giving people hope and about bringing our country together. It's about connecting with a younger generation and yes, happiness... and I think we can all agree that money doesn't buy you that.

Please America... Vote Obama 08.

I have been a caller in Obama's campaign, calling undecideds and women in particular. A week or so ago, I called what turned out to be list of black women in NC; I am white and living in Chicago. By the end of each call, we were trading recipes, sharing favorite book titles, and swapping stories about our kids. The women I talked with were excited about Obama's becoming president and uniting the country--and even helping unite the world--just like we were inspired to do in our own way by phone. (An Obama campaign caller in California had done the same thing with me and others several months ago.)

The Obama campaign has totally amazed me. I have never seen so many individuals so energized and so willing to donate money, so eager to make a few phone calls, and so happy to do whatever they can to bring people together. I have great hopes for his presidency. And I am a (and have always voted) Republican.

Yes, America. Vote Obama 08.

Galveston1 · Oct 23, 2008, 04:59 PM

I can guarantee you that Obama will NOT unite this country.

Wondergirl · Oct 23, 2008, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by Galveston1

I can guarantee you that Obama will NOT unite this country.

He already has. And we're going to include you in our lovefest whether you like it or not!

speechlesstx · Oct 23, 2008, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

He already has.

Yes, and this board is an indication of that. Trust me, if Obama wins unity will not be the word that comes to mind.

Wondergirl · Oct 23, 2008, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Yes, and this board is an indication of that. Trust me, if Obama wins unity will not be the word that comes to mind.

Let's finish eating our toasted marshmallows and hold hands around the campfire and sing "Kum Ba Yah."

speechlesstx · Oct 24, 2008, 04:24 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Let's finish eating our toasted marshmallows and hold hands around the campfire and sing "Kum Ba Yah."

LOL, I never liked that song.

speechlesstx · Oct 24, 2008, 12:50 PM

From Investor's Business Daily:

Small Business Not Safe From Obama Tax

By RALPH R. REILAND | Posted Wednesday, October 22, 2008 4:20 PM PT

Small businesses create nearly 80% of the new jobs in the American economy, and Barack Obama is proposing that the bulk of their job-creating profits should be sent to Washington.

Since the mid-1990s, the small business sector has created 78.9% of the net new jobs in the United States, reports the Office of Advocacy at the Small Business Administration. Sen. Obama is claiming his proposed tax hike on incomes over $250,000 will hardly stifle job creation in this key job-producing sector because "98% of small businesses make less than $250,000."

The 98% figure may be correct, but it conceals more than it reveals, just as Obama's description of Weatherman bomber Bill Ayers as "a guy who lives in my neighborhood who's a professor of English" was accurate but deceiving.

Obama gets to his reassuring 98% figure by lumping firms with no employees, the majority of small businesses, with small businesses that have 50 or 100 employees. Census data show that 79% of all American companies, counting both large and small firms, have no employees.

Similarly, the SBA's Office of Advocacy reports that 52% of small businesses in the U.S. economy are home-based — that is, not exactly the heavy-hitters when it comes to job creation.

As the New York Times reported regarding the makeup of the nation's 27 million small businesses: "According to figures compiled by the Small Business Administration, there are fewer than six million small businesses that actually have employees. The rest are so-called non-employer firms that report income from hobbies or freelance work done by their registered owners, earning as little as $1,000 a year."

By treating a lemonade stand the same as a home builder with 100 employees, Obama can get away with saying that 98% of small businesses in America won't be hit by his proposed increases in income taxes.

He's telling the 59 million employees in the small-business sector there's almost no chance, specifically a 2% chance, that their jobs or incomes will be negatively affected by his proposed tax hikes and policies to "spread the wealth around." In fact, Obama's proposed tax hike on incomes over $250,000 is precisely aimed at the small businesses that are generating the highest revenues and hiring the most workers.

"Two-thirds of small business profits are earned in households making more than $250,000 per year," reports Americans for Tax Reform. "In 2006, $473 billion of the $706 billion of small business profits was earned in households Obama has said he would raise taxes on."

Obama's proposed increases in income taxes and Social Security taxes would shift the bulk of the profits in the small-business sector to the federal coffers, reports Americans for Tax Reform:

"The tax rate on the lion's share of small business income could reach 54.9% under a President Obama. The individual top rate will climb from 35% to 39.6% and the Social Security/Medicare tax rate could climb from 2.9% to 15.3%. Put those together and you get 54.9%."

By increasing costs, Obama's higher business taxes would have the direct effect of increasing layoffs and raising prices. His proposed 54.9% tax rate would be the highest since the Carter administration, when the nation's unemployment and inflation rates peaked, respectively, at 7.6% and 13.5%.

"Obama's tax increases will only affect you if you have a 401(k), have any savings, buy things from small businesses or are looking for a job," explains Grover Norquist, president of the Americans for Tax Reform. "If you fall into one of these categories, his policies will take money out your pocket. Otherwise, you're fine."

With federal income taxes, Obama additionally says that "95% of working families will get a cut." That, in fact, is not possible because over a third of these households don't pay federal income taxes.

Rather than being permitted to keep more of their own earnings via a tax cut, Obama is actually proposing that they'll get to pocket someone else's money as part of his "spread the wealth around" agenda.

Similarly, Obama is saying that those making less than $250,000 a year "will not see one dime's worth of tax increases." Once again, what he's not saying is that his tax hikes on businesses will be passed on to consumers by way of higher prices.

Haven't any of you Obama supporters noticed how much Obama's not saying about a lot of things?

Wondergirl · Oct 24, 2008, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

small businesses

Heck, he might just adjust that figure upwards to $500K or even $1M. So what? Once he gets the job, he will consult with the best minds and make decisions accordingly. I trust him.

what he's not saying is that his tax hikes on businesses will be passed on to consumers by way of higher prices.

You think he hasn't thought of that, hasn't realized that would happen? There will be adjustments made as needed.

I'm having brunch tomorrow with Ayers. Want to come?

speechlesstx · Oct 24, 2008, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Heck, he might just adjust that figure upwards to $500K or even $1M. So what? Once he gets the job, he will consult with the best minds and make decisions accordingly.

I thought he WAS the best mind.

I trust him.

LOL, I don't trust any of them, especially someone that promises to spread the wealth around.

You think he hasn't thought of that, hasn't realized that would happen? There will be adjustments made as needed.

Just what adjustments can he make? Seriously, give us some examples.

I'm having brunch tomorrow with Ayers. Want to come?

Nah, you can have fun with the unrepentant terrorist.

tomder55 · Oct 24, 2008, 04:34 PM

Sitting around the coffee table taking turns reading 'Praire Fire The Politics of Revolutionary anti-Imperialism'
Amazon.com: Prairie Fire: The Politics of Revolutionary Anti-Imperialism: Political Statement of the Weather Underground: Bernardine; Jones, Jeff; Ayers, Billy; Sojourn, Celia dohrn: Books

And perhaps watching this video by Larry Grathwohl a former undercover FBI agent who infiltrated the Weathermen.
YouTube - Ayers' Weathermen planned "re-education", genocide

Just like watching home movies for Ayers and Dohrn.

Wondergirl · Oct 24, 2008, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by tomder55

Prairie Fire: The Politics of Revolutionary Anti-Imperialism: Political Statement of the Weather Underground

tomder55 · Oct 24, 2008, 04:52 PM

I'm trying to find a copy myself. Amazon has some used copies. I have read some parts of it posted on blogs .