I noticed that a Humanist in another thread made a statement that led me to believe that he did not equate "intelligent design" with religion. This is a subject that probably should get more serious & widespread discussion than it does. What do you think?

achampio21

[quote=sassyT]

Job 40:15-24 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

15Behold now behemoth, which I made with thee; he eateth grass as an ox.
16Lo now, his strength is in his loins, and his force is in the navel of his belly.
17He moveth his tail like a cedar: the sinews of his stones are wrapped together.
18His bones are as strong pieces of brass; his bones are like bars of iron.
19He is the chief of the ways of God: he that made him can make his sword to approach unto him.
20Surely the mountains bring him forth food, where all the beasts of the field play.
21He lieth under the shady trees, in the covert of the reed, and fens.
22The shady trees cover him with their shadow; the willows of the brook compass him about.
23Behold, he drinketh up a river, and hasteth not: he trusteth that he can draw up Jordan into his mouth.
24He taketh it with his eyes: his nose pierceth through snares.

Okay so science has shown that dinosaurs were huge beasts. Yet the bible states that this creature could lay in the shade of the trees and the willows (which are quite small) could compass (surround) him about. Doesn't sound very big to me. I'm thinking this passage is talking about an elephant at best.

15His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.
16One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.
17They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.
18By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.
19Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.
20Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.
21His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.

And this passage is from JOB 41. What dinosaur breathed fire. Sounds like a dragon is being described here. No proof of those yet.

Psalm 104:25-26 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
25So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts.
26There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.

And this passage doesn't say anything about dinosaurs. It could actually be talking about giant squid as great beasts (by the way giant squid have been proven by science)

Isaiah 27:1 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain
Isaiah 27
1In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that is in the sea.

Again talks about a dragon. Not about a dinosaur.
So where does it say GOD created dinosaurs?

oh and there's this too:
Leviathan
a transliterated Hebrew word (livyathan), meaning "twisted," "coiled." In Job 3:8, Revised Version, and marg. of Authorized Version, it denotes the dragon which, according to Eastern tradition, is an enemy of light; in 41:1 the crocodile is meant; in Ps. 104:26 it "denotes any large animal that moves by writhing or wriggling the body, the whale, the monsters of the deep." This word is also used figuratively for a cruel enemy, as some think "the Egyptian host, crushed by the divine power, and cast on the shores of the Red Sea" (Ps. 74:14). As used in Isa. 27:1, "leviathan the piercing [R.V. 'swift'] serpent, even leviathan that crooked [R.V. marg. 'winding'] serpent," the word may probably denote the two empires, the Assyrian and the Babylonian.

[b]or:
Leviathan
(jointed monster) occurs five times in the text of the Authorized Version, and once in the margin of (Job 3:8) where the text has "mourning." In the Hebrew Bible the word livyathan, which is, with the foregoing exception, always left untranslated in the Authorized Version, is found only in the following passages: (Job 3:8; 41:1; Psalms 74:14; 104:26; Isaiah 27:1) In the margin of (Job 3:8) and text of (Job 41:1) the crocodile is most clearly the animal denoted by the Hebrew word. (Psalms 74:14) also clearly points to this same saurian. The context of (Psalms 104:26) seems to show that in this passage the name represents some animal of the whale tribe, which is common in the Mediterranean; but it is somewhat uncertain what animal is denoted in (Isaiah 27:1) As the term leviathan is evidently used in no limited sense, it is not improbable that the "leviathan the piercing serpent," or "leviathan the crooked serpent," may denote some species of the great rock-snakes which are common in south and west Africa.

firmbeliever

I was just thinking.....
and have come to the conclusion that the revealed books/scriptures -Torah,Bible,Quran does not mention dinosaurs or evolution because it is not really that important when it comes to faith.
Revealed scriptures were guidelines to follow in the light of the guidance of the Almighty.To be among the pious,the good doers, we do not actually need to know how the world began but that however it began it is the Almighty who is capable of creating life.

And learning science need not be a loss of faith but a gain in faith that science explores things we are unable to spend the time or money to research.The Almighty time and again reminds us to look at the created world and marvel at the signs of His creation.

When my child/children learn science in school,they would already know that all creation came from the Almighty and unto Him is our return.

ordinaryguy

If only this were more widely appreciated, there would be a lot fewer arguments. Combining a strictly literal interpretation of scriptures with major misconceptions about scientific theory and practice leads to most of the contentious disputation that occurs, both here and elsewhere.

achampio21

I do agree to a point. I believe that there is a higher being. A God, Creator whatever you want to call Him. But I also believe that man has taken that and used it to make money and to control people. I believe that religion is a state of mind and belief. But churches and the "leaders" of those faiths at times use peoples beliefs to get what they want= money and power. I have been to several different churches from southern baptist to protestant, to methodist. And I have looked into many others. And I have found that too many of them take the "bible" and twist it's meaning to fit their own needs.

The "bible" was not around when life began (now you have to buy them). Churches were not around when life began ( they want you to give them your money and yet most of the pastors bills are included in the churches bills and they somehow drive nicer cars than most of the church members). A marriage license was not around when life began (yeah, that cost money too) and quite honestly when you read the bible A LOT of the things that the government and society deem to be wrong where going on in the time of Jesus and the first days of life on earth.

So, with that said my opinion is that anyone and everyone can believe whatever way they want. Be it that when our body dies we go into the ground and bugs eat us and that's it to when we die we come back as a chipmunk, to when we die we go to "Heaven" and sing praises. But I will not allow a man who is not God, or Jesus tell me what I should do with my money that I work for or tell me what it is that I am doing wrong in my life when he himself may be going home to rape his daughter. I will pray in the sanctuary of my own home much like Adam and Eve prayed in the garden of Eden (butt naked if I might add) and I will believe how I want to believe.

But I raise question to the "bible" simply because man wrote it and in my lifetime I have come to learn that you cannot trust anyone but yourself and God if you believe in Him. And I have read most all of the bible and I think that man has twisted it over the centuries to fit whatever lifestyle they wanted it to fit at that point in time and to this very day man twists it's meanings to fit whatever he wants at the time. But that is my opinion.

I am really fascinated by the whole conversation on this topic because I have never heard of ID until now. And I just really enjoy learning about anything and everything I don't know anythiing about!!