if its in your hearts

TheSavage · #1 Dec 26, 2007, 06:57 PM

To help this family
Help-a-mother: keep a family together - Online Petition
it would be good of all you fine folks -- now its time for me to crawl back under my rock -- peace to all --theSavage

TheSavage · Dec 27, 2007, 02:29 AM

bump -- 16 ppl looked and not one responded to keep it going?

tomder55 · Dec 27, 2007, 04:40 AM

It did not take much digging to find that the author Christa Van Vuuren writes for a website called 'The Jesus Myth' under the pseudonym of Luci .

"We are raising funds for her so that she can afford representation for her son who faces deportation. People have already asked to donate funds to her for that purpose, so we have the widget you see to the right set up to collect funds for for her. All funds will be directly placed into Luci’s PayPal account upon submission."luci

Also her son is now about 25 not 18 .

"Luci and her husband left South Africa with Erhard about 10 years ago - Erhard was 15, and he has not returned to South Africa since."

Congress.org

And he was not "required" to register for Selective Service. The Law applies to those who are already citizens.

Here is the law : In 1996, Congress enacted the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, making it a federal crime for non-citizens to vote in any federal election (or state election, unless authorized by state law). As a penalty, ineligible non-citizens who knowingly vote may be deported. Additionally, a non-citizen who falsely claims to be a United States citizen is in violation of this law.

FAIR: : Non-Citizen Voting in Federal Elections

I say hasta la vista baby ! There are more deserving immigrants I'd rather champion.

NeedKarma · Dec 27, 2007, 05:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSavage

bump -- 16 ppl looked and not one responded to keep it going?

Online petitions have never amounted to anything.

ETWolverine · Dec 27, 2007, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSavage

bump -- 16 ppl looked and not one responded to keep it going?

Maybe that's because there's not much here that's worth keeping going.

There are a number of questions that come to mind in this case.

1) Why did the son not become a citizen at the same time as the parents? Why was there a separate hearing for the son? And why did that hearing not take place until he was an adult... 10-years after his arrival?

2) Why did a non-citizen sign up for selective service?

3) Ms. Van Vuuren wote: "Part of the reasoning behind the 26th amendment of the U.S. Constitution in 1970 was that citizens who could be drafted to fight in a die for the U.S. should be able to determine its direction by voting. Can't this logic be extrapolated to include forgiveness for unintentional transgressions that hurt no one?"

What the heck does that mean? What extrapolation of logic is she speaking of?

4) Why did Ms. Van Vuuren not disclose the fact that her son is now 25 years old? He's not some teenager unable to take care of himself? This isn't an "Elian Gonzales" being deported at the age of 6 years old. This is an adult who can make his own way in the world. Was she afraid that our knowing her son's age would affect our willingness to support her cause? If so she was probably right.

If Ms. Van Vuuren wants a miracle to happen on behalf of her son, perhaps she should pray for it. Oh... that's right, she's an anti-religion, atheist activist. She doesn't do prayer.

Sorry, I am NOT moved by this case.

Elliot

RubyPitbull · Dec 27, 2007, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

And he was not "required" to register for Selective Service. The Law applies to those who are already citizens..

You are right Tom. There is no requirement for non-citizens to register. Selective Service does state: "You want to protect yourself for future U.S. citizenship and other government benefits and programs by registering with Selective Service."
Selective Service System: Welcome
Registering and serving would have helped his case if he chose to apply for citizenship.

From what Ms. Van Vuuren states in her appeal: "Shortly thereafter, he ran across a group of campaigners registering students to vote in the upcoming elections. They promised him that since he was registered for Selective Service, he was eligible to vote. This was not true."

This tells me that he questioned these people about his right to vote when he was approached to register. So, he knew at some earlier point in time that he was told he couldn't vote. Sadly, he made a grave error in judgment by allowing a complete stranger to manipulate him. He placed his trust in someone with an agenda. This sad fact happens every day in one way or another in every country in the world. I knew someone who is a wonderful person and a very hard worker that was deported because she made an error while attempting to renew her work visa. She deserved to be able to stay in this country. But, she put her trust in the wrong people. I attempted to help her, but it was of no use. I am sorry Savage, you know I have nothing but respect for you, but I don't feel comfortable signing a petition for someone who is a complete stranger to me. I have no way of corroborating what she is saying is the absolute truth. For all we know, he could have done something in addition to this that is prompting the government to throw him out of the country. So IMO, this is a fight that her family must take on themselves, relying on any help she can get from her friends and local Representives. I truly don't believe complete strangers signing a petition will do her any good. And, I don't want to find out at a later time that my name is showing up on a list of anti U.S. government reactionaries, or some other propaganda.

speechlesstx · Dec 27, 2007, 01:37 PM

Sorry Savage, I don't buy into online petitions coming out of nowhere for people I've never heard of any more than I'd want a free online ordination or to help those wacky Nigerians get their money out of Nigeria.

luce · Dec 29, 2007, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomder55

It did not take much digging to find that the author Christa Van Vuuren writes for a website called 'The Jesus Myth' under the pseudonym of Luci .

"We are raising funds for her so that she can afford representation for her son who faces deportation. People have already asked to donate funds to her for that purpose, so we have the widget you see to the right set up to collect funds for for her. All funds will be directly placed into Luci’s PayPal account upon submission."luci

Also her son is now about 25 not 18 .

"Luci and her husband left South Africa with Erhard about 10 years ago - Erhard was 15, and he has not returned to South Africa since."

Congress.org

And he was not "required" to register for Selective Service. The Law applies to those who are already citizens.

Here is the law : In 1996, Congress enacted the Illegal Immigration Reform and Immigrant Responsibility Act, making it a federal crime for non-citizens to vote in any federal election (or state election, unless authorized by state law). As a penalty, ineligible non-citizens who knowingly vote may be deported. Additionally, a non-citizen who falsely claims to be a United States citizen is in violation of this law.

FAIR: : Non-Citizen Voting in Federal Elections

I say hasta la vista baby ! There are more deserving immigrants I'd rather champion.

Selective Service facts:

Selective Service System: Fast Facts

Quote:

U.S. non-citizens and dual nationals are required by law to register with the Selective Service System.* Most are also liable for induction into the U.S. Armed Forces if there is a draft. They would also be eligible for any deferments, postponements, and exemptions available to all other registrants.

My son was told by American citizens who registered him for the draft, (SS) that it was legal. Yet the person who lied and caused us all this anguish is innocent?

luce · Dec 29, 2007, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RubyPitbull

You are right Tom. There is no requirement for non-citizens to register. Selective Service does state: "You want to protect yourself for future U.S. citizenship and other government benefits and programs by registering with Selective Service."
Selective Service System: Welcome
Registering and serving would have helped his case if he chose to apply for citizenship.

From what Ms. Van Vuuren states in her appeal: "Shortly thereafter, he ran across a group of campaigners registering students to vote in the upcoming elections. They promised him that since he was registered for Selective Service, he was eligible to vote. This was not true."

This tells me that he questioned these people about his right to vote when he was approached to register. So, he knew at some earlier point in time that he was told he couldn't vote. Sadly, he made a grave error in judgment by allowing a complete stranger to manipulate him. He placed his trust in someone with an agenda. This sad fact happens every day in one way or another in every country in the world. I knew someone who is a wonderful person and a very hard worker that was deported because she made an error while attempting to renew her work visa. She deserved to be able to stay in this country. But, she put her trust in the wrong people. I attempted to help her, but it was of no use. I am sorry Savage, you know I have nothing but respect for you, but I don't feel comfortable signing a petition for someone who is a complete stranger to me. I have no way of corroborating what she is saying is the absolute truth. For all we know, he could have done something in addition to this that is prompting the government to throw him out of the country. So IMO, this is a fight that her family must take on themselves, relying on any help she can get from her friends and local Representives. I truly don't believe complete strangers signing a petition will do her any good. And, I don't want to find out at a later time that my name is showing up on a list of anti U.S. government reactionaries, or some other propaganda.

My son has a clean record for the past tne years, so do my husband and I.

We work hard, we pay our taxes, we cause no disturbances anywhere, we are assimilated in the US culture.

My son cared so much that he believed he was doing a good deed.

Imagine yourself going to a country where you have to get to know and find out everything you dont even know you dont know - in other words: you can only make such accusations once you have walked a mile in our shoes.

My husband was under the WTC when it was already burning, the train had to pull back. He helped people who were hurt, hysterical, upset - he came home 9 om that night.

I think we deserve a little bit of credit.

luce · Dec 29, 2007, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETWolverine

Maybe that's because there's not much here that's worth keeping going.

There are a number of questions that come to mind in this case.

1) Why did the son not become a citizen at the same time as the parents? Why was there a separate hearing for the son? And why did that hearing not take place until he was an adult... 10-years after his arrival?

2) Why did a non-citizen sign up for selective service?

3) Ms. Van Vuuren wote: "Part of the reasoning behind the 26th amendment of the U.S. Constitution in 1970 was that citizens who could be drafted to fight in a die for the U.S. should be able to determine its direction by voting. Can't this logic be extrapolated to include forgiveness for unintentional transgressions that hurt no one?"

What the heck does that mean? What extrapolation of logic is she speaking of?

4) Why did Ms. Van Vuuren not disclose the fact that her son is now 25 years old? He's not some teenager unable to take care of himself? This isn't an "Elian Gonzales" being deported at the age of 6 years old. This is an adult who can make his own way in the world. Was she afraid that our knowing her son's age would affect our willingness to support her cause? If so she was probably right.

If Ms. Van Vuuren wants a miracle to happen on behalf of her son, perhaps she should pray for it. Oh... that's right, she's an anti-religion, atheist activist. She doesn't do prayer.

Sorry, I am NOT moved by this case.

Elliot

1) It takes almost ten years to become a citizen. We arrived May5, 1997, and became
citizens the end of last year. My son was an adult by then.

2) Non citizens has to sign up by law:
Selective Service System: Fast Facts

3) Don't expect me tyo teach you English, it is my second language and I understand that.

4) His age is not hidden or lied about. I never said he was 18 - where do you get that info?

I take it you are a Christian.

Lovely attitude you have there.



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