Government insanity

ETWolverine · Sep 30, 2009, 07:59 AM

Ahhh... our ever-efficient government strikes again.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090929/..._backlash_mich

Quote:

State to mom: Stop baby-sitting neighbors' kids

By JAMES PRICHARD, Associated Press Writer James Prichard, Associated Press Writer Tue Sep 29, 7:23 pm ET

IRVING TOWNSHIP, Mich. – Each day before the school bus comes to pick up the neighborhood's children, Lisa Snyder did a favor for three of her fellow moms, welcoming their children into her home for about an hour before they left for school.

Regulators who oversee child care, however, don't see it as charity. Days after the start of the new school year, Snyder received a letter from the Michigan Department of Human Services warning her that if she continued, she'd be violating a law aimed at the operators of unlicensed day care centers.

"I was freaked out. I was blown away," she said. "I got on the phone immediately, called my husband, then I called all the girls" — that is, the mothers whose kids she watches — "every one of them."

Snyder's predicament has led to a debate in Michigan about whether a law that says no one may care for unrelated children in their home for more than four weeks each calendar year unless they are licensed day-care providers needs to be changed. It also has irked parents who say they depend on such friendly offers to help them balance work and family.

On Tuesday, agency Director Ismael Ahmed said good neighbors should be allowed to help each other ensure their children are safe. Gov. Jennifer Granholm instructed Ahmed to work with the state Legislature to change the law, he said.

"Being a good neighbor means helping your neighbors who are in need," Ahmed said in a written statement. "This could be as simple as providing a cup of sugar, monitoring their house while they're on vacation or making sure their children are safe while they wait for the school bus."

Snyder learned that the agency was responding to a neighbor's complaint.

Granholm spokeswoman Liz Boyd said the agency was following standard procedure in its response. "But we feel this (law) really gets in the way of common sense," Boyd said.

"We want to protect kids, but the law needs to be reasonable," she said. "When the governor learned of this, she acted quickly and called the director personally to ask him to intervene."

State Rep. Brian Calley, R-Portland, said he was working to draft legislation that would exempt situations like Snyder's from coverage under Michigan's current day care regulations.

The bill will make it clear that people who aren't in business as day care providers don't need to be licensed, Calley said.

"These are just kids that wait for the bus every morning," he said. "This is not a day care."

Snyder, 35, lives in a rural subdivision in Barry County's Irving Township about 25 miles southeast of Grand Rapids. Her tidy, comfortable three-bedroom home is a designated school bus stop. The three neighbor children she watched — plus Snyder's first-grader, Grace — attend school about six miles away in Middleville.

Snyder said she started watching the other children this school year to help her friends; they often baby-sit for each other during evenings and weekends.

After receiving the state agency's letter, she said she called the agency and tried to explain that she wasn't running a day care center or accepting money from her friends.

Under state law, no one may care for unrelated children in their home for more than four weeks each calendar year unless they are licensed day-care providers. Snyder said she stopped watching the other children immediately after receiving the letter, which was well within the four-week period.

"I've lived in this community for 35 years and everyone I know has done some form of this," said Francie Brummel, 42, who would drop off her second-grade son, Colson, before heading to her job as deputy treasurer of the nearby city of Hastings.

Other moms say they regularly deal with similar situations.

Amy Cowan, 34, of Grosse Pointe Farms, a Detroit suburb, said she often takes turns with her sister, neighbor and friend watching each other's children.

"The worst part of this whole thing, with the state of the economy ... two parents have to work," said Cowan, a corporate sales representative with a 5-year-old son and 11-month-old daughter. "When you throw in the fact that the state is getting involved, it gives women a hard time for going back to work.

"I applaud the lady who takes in her neighbors' kids while they're waiting for the bus. She's enabling her peers to go to work and get a paycheck. The state should be thankful for that."

Amy Maciaszek, 42, of McHenry, Ill., who works in direct sales, said she believes the state agency was "trying to be overprotective."

"I think it does take a village and that's the best way," said Maciaszek, who has a 6-year-old boy and twin 3-year-old daughters. "Unfortunately you do have to be careful about that. These mothers are trying to do the right thing."

___ Associated Press writers Randi Goldberg Berris and David Runk in Detroit and Kathy Barks Hoffman in Lansing, Mich., contributed to this report.

A couple of questions.

1) Who is the schmuck that complained that his neighbor was watching other people's kids? I want to find that idiot and just smack him/her upside the head.

2) Seeing this example of how government bureaucrats seem to be able to only operate according to "stadard procedure" and can't seem to think for themselves, do we really want that type of bureaucrat in charge of any part of our lives, much less making "decisions" about our health care? Seems to me that government bureaucrats have their common sense and critical thinking skills removed upon beginning employment within the government.

Comments?

phlanx · Nov 2, 2009, 12:29 PM

Elliot

First of all, I had to write the cheques for my suppliers today, so please excuse me if I have come across to strong, I always get very annoyed with everything on the 1st of the month -kids are in bed and I have just had wee nip and feeling alot more relaxed with the world!!!!!

What I have been arguing against is your insistance that regulation in any form is bad, what you have been arguing against is you think I think all regulation is good

I actually think it is somewhere inbetween

There is a clear reaon why rules and regulations exist in todays world

This need has arisen out of case after case of bad business and/or criminal activity that I believe the system is now at such a point that it is trying to avoid future bad cases and/or criminal activity

Of course this is an impossible task, and I agree with you that Governments should limit what they govern

However, in the land of marketing, you really need to check up what Honesty means - this is a decriptive word, and what one persons thinks is dishonest, another does not

Look, we both have the same idea of the world, screw or be screwed!

It is how we see other people that makes a huge difference, you see as you say, are only interested in you, I am on the otherhand have too much empathy for mankind to watch it continue in a society that thinks that today has no tomorrow, or freedom of choice is not freedom of choice for all in an unfair system

This does make me a socialist in anyway, I believe like you do, if we want something then we have to work for it

If we want to understand something we can sit down a read a book or two

But what makes you think that everybody in this world can do that?

I look out for a mate, he isnt the sharpest tool in the box but has the biggest heart, it just is how god made him, or he was dropped - cant decide which

He would not be able to make a wise choice if it landed in his lap, but as many people in his life have critised him about his choices, it took me years for him to understand that when I gave him advice or explain something to him, he could always go and make the wrong mistake and I wuouldnt judge him for it, I would still take the mick, but that his choices are his to make, this has given him confort.

So now with him able to ask me questions and find out what is what and understand, he can make some of the right choices

This as you say is education, and we both agree on that issue

However, what happens to these people if there arent people like myself looking out for them - should I allow them to live in a society that doesnt care

Thats is the cornerstone of why I argue with so much matey, we have two opoosing views on life, you say the stupid shoudl be educated and I never underestimate the stupidty of mankind

ETWolverine · Nov 3, 2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phlanx

Elliot

First of all, I had to write the cheques for my suppliers today, so please excuse me if I have come across to strong, I always get very annoyed with everything on the 1st of the month -kids are in bed and I have just had wee nip and feeling alot more relaxed with the world!!!!!

What I have been arguing against is your insistance that regulation in any form is bad, what you have been arguing against is you think I think all regulation is good

I actually think it is somewhere inbetween

There is a clear reaon why rules and regulations exist in todays world

This need has arisen out of case after case of bad business and/or criminal activity that I believe the system is now at such a point that it is trying to avoid future bad cases and/or criminal activity

Of course this is an impossible task, and I agree with you that Governments should limit what they govern

However, in the land of marketing, you really need to check up what Honesty means - this is a decriptive word, and what one persons thinks is dishonest, another does not

Look, we both have the same idea of the world, screw or be screwed!

It is how we see other people that makes a huge difference, you see as you say, are only interested in you, I am on the otherhand have too much empathy for mankind to watch it continue in a society that thinks that today has no tomorrow, or freedom of choice is not freedom of choice for all in an unfair system

This does make me a socialist in anyway, I believe like you do, if we want something then we have to work for it

If we want to understand something we can sit down a read a book or two

But what makes you think that everybody in this world can do that?

I look out for a mate, he isnt the sharpest tool in the box but has the biggest heart, it just is how god made him, or he was dropped - cant decide which

He would not be able to make a wise choice if it landed in his lap, but as many people in his life have critised him about his choices, it took me years for him to understand that when I gave him advice or explain something to him, he could always go and make the wrong mistake and I wuouldnt judge him for it, I would still take the mick, but that his choices are his to make, this has given him confort.

So now with him able to ask me questions and find out what is what and understand, he can make some of the right choices

This as you say is education, and we both agree on that issue

However, what happens to these people if there arent people like myself looking out for them - should I allow them to live in a society that doesnt care

Thats is the cornerstone of why I argue with so much matey, we have two opoosing views on life, you say the stupid shoudl be educated and I never underestimate the stupidty of mankind

I think the last paragraph is the one that shows the difference between our philosophies.

I have worked with mentally challenged, Downs Syndrome, and other developmentally challenged children and adults. One thing that I have learned is that NOBODY is too stupid to learn. Some of the best decision-makers I have ever met were mentally challenged in some form or other... but they learned a METHOD for making decisions for themselves and they practiced it. Sometimes they made the wrong decisions, but they learned from those errors and didn't make them the second time.

I am fairly sure that your friend with the "simple" outlook on life that you claim "would not be able to make a wise choice if it landed in his lap" can learn to make decisions for himself just fine. It may take making bad choices and then dealing with the consequences of those choices in order for him to learn... but he can do it.

I believe that given the right education (and that means different things for different people) all of us can make good decisions for ourselves, and we don't need the government to do it for us. You believe that there are people who need protection because they are too stupid to learn. I disagree with that assumption based on my own experience.

BTW, just because other people think that your friend's decisions are bad ones doesn't mean that they aren't the best, most logical, most beneficial decisons for him. Your friend may have a different set of goals than others have, and therefore his decisions may be the ones most beneficial for his goals EVEN IF NOBODY ELSE SEES IT. Don't automatically assume that just because you would make a different decision that his decision is wrong.

I just don't buy the argument that people are too dumb to know what they want and what decisions to make to get it.

Elliot