Gay Marriage

excon · Nov 11, 2008, 06:42 AM

Hello conservative right wingers:

Why do you deny the happiness, that you yourself enjoy, from your fellow citizens? Isn't doing that UN Christianlike???? I think it IS!!!

You are bad and wrong for doing that. Tell my why you're not.

excon

Altenweg · Feb 27, 2009, 07:40 PM

I agree that there has to be a limit Chuck, but with gay marriage? What's the harm?

Sex before 16 can be harmful, so can marriage before a certain age, but there is no harm in gay marriage.

talaniman · Feb 27, 2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

And there can not nor should there be "complete" freedom from morality, since there has to be a limit at some point

There is the rub! Who's morality are we talking about??

Altenweg · Feb 28, 2009, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by talaniman

There is the rub! Who's morality are we talking about??

I'm curious to know that as well.

Also, what does morality have to do with two people that love eachother getting married? I thought that was a moral act.

starbuck8 · Feb 28, 2009, 12:09 AM

I agree Tal. I don't think this is just an issue of morality. I think this is more of an issue understanding, and empathy for gay people, to have the same rights under the law as others. Some may not agree, but people who are BORN gay, deserve to be recognised and be able to live a happy and fulfilling life, just like anyone else.

I have met several gay people in my life, and came to realise that they all put on their socks and shoes just as we do. They are not "freaks of nature", as some of them are seen and treated as such.

We have had young children commit suicide because they thought they were living in the wrong body, and were ostrasized (sp) by others...children and adults alike.

I think morality needs to start with compassion for the young children that are faced with this. How do you tell a young child, that what he or she is feeling is wrong?

Just on a personal note. I'm a straight heterosexal female. I once knew a man where I worked, in a professional setting. He was incredibly handsome, and didn't fit the stereo-typical role of a "gay" male. He had all of the hot woman clamouring around him. I couldn't figure out why he was always "dateless" when we would go out to the bar, or other social events. I found that he seemed very uncomfortable in social settings. He would get up and dance and socialize with the girls, but it was obvious he wasn't himself.

One day I got up the nerve to ask him if he was gay. At first he denied it, but both he and I knew he was lying. When he admitted it, he felt so ashamed, and was so afraid that he would lose me as a friend, because now I was one of the very few that knew. Others had left him when they found out. They quite obviously were not friends.

Fast forward several yrs. Stuart and I remained very good friends. We hung out all of the time, and he was always the type of person that just wanted everyone else to have fun and be happy. He was in a few short lived relationships, and I know that is because he was afraid of being made fun of.

Well, Stuart was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. (same thing Patrick Swayze has) It was in it's later stages. I went to many of his Dr.'s appt's with him, and sat with him in the hospital, while he was hooked up to all sorts of machines and tubes. He didn't live long after the diagnosis. It was heartbreaking!

Does anyone want to guess what the rumour around town was when he died? Go ahead, take a guess? Of course!!...he MUST have died of AIDS right? What a wonderful send off for him!

So if we are going to talk morality here, lets think about how moral that was, and then we'll talk.

Dare81 · Feb 28, 2009, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altenweg

I agree that there has to be a limit Chuck, but with gay marriage? What's the harm?

Sex before 16 can be harmful, so can marriage before a certain age, but there is no harm in gay marriage.

I don't agree with this.How is sex before 16 harmful??

The legal age for marriage in most countries is 16, in some Asian countries its 14
Marriageable age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Even though i agree that same sex marriages should have exactly the same rights as any other marriage.but the same arguments that are made for same sex marriages could be made for polygamy.
Society has to draw a line, but that line is based upon morality Which morality you ask, the morality of the majority, since we live in a democratic society.

cozyk · Feb 28, 2009, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

lots of freedom in the US Constitution, but there is actually no "right" to marry at all listed,
Marriage was a state law to be regulated by the state. at 16 some states allow you to marry, others don't, at 16 some states allow you to have sex, others don't,
And there can not nor should there be "complete" freedom from morality, since there has to be a limit at some point

You mean YOUR morality according to YOUR religion?

excon · Feb 28, 2009, 07:21 AM

Hello again:

I read the Constitution. The word "moral" isn't in there. You'd think that if the government was supposed to DO something about morals, the Constitution would say so.

It doesn't.

Those founders were pretty smart guys. If they wanted MORAL laws, they would have said so.

They didn't.

Therefore, ALL laws based upon the Christian idea of morality, are UNCONSTITUTIONAL, and should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

Let freedom ring!

excon

cozyk · Feb 28, 2009, 07:22 AM

Quote:

One day I got up the nerve to ask him if he was gay. At first he denied it, but both he and I knew he was lying. When he admitted it, he felt so ashamed, and was so afraid that he would lose me as a friend, because now I was one of the very few that knew. Others had left him when they found out. They quite obviously were not friends.

Now, THIS is immoral. For a society to shun you or for you to feel ashamed of who you are, or afraid that friends will drop you if you admit your truth. This is so wrong!

talaniman · Feb 28, 2009, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Society has to draw a line, but that line is based upon morality Which morality you ask, the morality of the majority, since we live in a democratic society.

Thats only partly true, as we all cannot be denied equal protection under the law. No matter who you live with, and what you do with them. Being a democratic society is precisely why the majority cannot dictate morality to the minority.

While the law cannot dictate what a church does in its own religion, it can give its citizens the same rights shared by all. If one church will marry gay people, and another will not, so be it, as that has nothing to do with law, but city hall should not have a choice to discriminate, and favor one set of beliefs over another, but thats just my opinion. That goes for tax discrimination between marrieds, and singles, and deductions for dependents. Its made to favor people who are married, and should not say who can marry, and who can't. Just my opinion again.

Altenweg · Feb 28, 2009, 11:08 AM

Quote:

don't agree with this.How is sex before 16 harmful??

You're kidding, right? Well, a 16 year old is not physically, emotionally, financially old enough to have a child, and we all know that sex produces children. Are you saying that you would be okay with a 15 year old girl having sex? Wow! Now that's morally wrong.



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