The Death of Conservatism

ETWolverine · Oct 27, 2009, 02:37 PM

Sam Tanenhaus, an liberal historian, recently wrote a book called "The Death of Conservastism". In it, he tries to prove that the title is true.

Well, not quite yet...

Quote:

October 26, 2009

Conservatives Maintain Edge as Top Ideological Group

Compared with 2008, more Americans “conservative” in general, and on issues

by Lydia Saad

PRINCETON, NJ -- Conservatives continue to outnumber moderates and liberals in the American populace in 2009, confirming a finding that Gallup first noted in June. Forty percent of Americans describe their political views as conservative, 36% as moderate, and 20% as liberal. This marks a shift from 2005 through 2008, when moderates were tied with conservatives as the most prevalent group.

"Changes among political independents appear to be the main reason the percentage of conservatives has increased nationally over the past year: the 35% of independents describing their views as conservative in 2009 is up from 29% in 2008."

The 2009 data are based on 16 separate Gallup surveys conducted from January through September, encompassing more than 5,000 national adults per quarter. Conservatives have been the dominant ideological group each quarter, with between 39% and 41% of Americans identifying themselves as either "very conservative" or "conservative." Between 35% and 37% of Americans call themselves "moderate," while the percentage calling themselves "very liberal" or "liberal" has consistently registered between 20% and 21% -- making liberals the smallest of the three groups.

Independents Inch to the Right
Changes among political independents appear to be the main reason the percentage of conservatives has increased nationally over the past year: the 35% of independents describing their views as conservative in 2009 is up from 29% in 2008. By contrast, among Republicans and Democrats, the percentage who are "conservative" has increased by one point each.

As is typical in recent years, Republicans are far more unified in their political outlook than are either independents or Democrats. While 72% of Republicans in 2009 call their views conservative, independents are closely split between the moderate and conservative labels (43% and 35%, respectively). Democrats are about evenly divided between moderates (39%) and liberals (37%).

Americans Also Moving Right on Some Issues

In addition to the increase in conservatism on this general ideology measure, Gallup finds higher percentages of Americans expressing conservative views on several specific issues in 2009 than in 2008.

Perceptions that there is too much government regulation of business and industry jumped from 38% in September 2008 to 45% in September 2009.
The percentage of Americans saying they would like to see labor unions have less influence in the country rose from 32% in August 2008 to a record-high 42% in August 2009.
Public support for keeping the laws governing the sale of firearms the same or making them less strict rose from 49% in October 2008 to 55% in October 2009, also a record high. (The percentage saying the laws should become more strict -- the traditionally liberal position -- fell from 49% to 44%.)
The percentage of Americans favoring a decrease in immigration rose from 39% in June/July 2008 to 50% in July 2009.
The propensity to want the government to "promote traditional values" -- as opposed to "not favor any particular set of values" -- rose from 48% in 2008 to 53% in 2009. Current support for promoting traditional values is the highest seen in five years.
The percentage of Americans who consider themselves "pro-life" on abortion rose from 44% in May 2008 to 51% in May 2009, and remained at a slightly elevated 47% in July 2009.
Americans' belief that the global warming problem is "exaggerated" inthe news rose from 35% in March 2008 to 41% in March 2009.

Gallup has not recorded heightened conservatism on all major social and political views held by Americans. For instance, attitudes on the death penalty, gay marriage, the Iraq war, and Afghanistan have stayed about the same since 2008. However, there are no major examples of U.S. public opinion becoming more liberal in the past year. (Gallup's annual trends on healthcare will be updated in November, so those attitudes are not included in this review.)

The conservative shifts discussed here result as much from changes in political independents' views as from changes in Republicans' views. Democrats' views, by contrast, have generally changed only slightly -- either to the conservative or liberal side -- with two exceptions: Gallup finds greater movement in Democrats' views of abortion, which have become more liberal, and their views of labor unions, which have become more conservative.

Bottom Line
Americans are more likely to consider themselves conservative this year than they were in 2008, resulting in conservatives -- now 40% of the American public -- outnumbering moderates for the first time since 2004. While Gallup first documented this trend in June, the finding has been sustained through the third quarter.

Conservatism is most prevalent among Republicans. However, the overall increase in this ideological stance since 2008 comes largely from political independents, among whom 35% say they are conservatives thus far in 2009 -- compared with 29% last year. Independents have also become more conservative on a number of specific policy issues, including government and union power, the role of government relative to promoting values, gun laws, immigration, global warming, and abortion. Republicans, most of whom considered themselves ideologically conservative in 2008, have also grown more conservative on several of these issues this year, while less change is seen among Democrats.

All of this has potentially important implications at the ballot box, particularly for the 2010 midterm elections. The question is whether increased conservatism, particularly among independents, will translate into heightened support for Republican candidates. Right now, it appears it may. Although Gallup polling continues to show the Democratic Party leading the Republican Party in Americans' party identification, that lead has been narrowing since the beginning of the year and now stands at six points, the smallest since 2005. According to Gallup Managing Editor Jeff Jones, "the Democratic-Republican gap is narrowing because more independents now say they lean to the Republican Party." That trend aligns with the recent changes in how independents perceive their own ideology and where they stand on some key issues.
Survey Methods
The 2009 political ideology results reported here are based on 16 aggregated Gallup surveys conducted from January to September 2009. For results based on the total sample of 16,321 national adults, aged 18 and older, one can say with 95% confidence that the maximum margin of sampling error is ±1 percentage point.

Interviews are conducted with respondents on land-line telephones (for respondents with a land-line telephone) and cellular phones (for respondents who are cell-phone only).

In addition to sampling error, question wording and practical difficulties in conducting surveys can introduce error or bias into the findings of public opinion polls.

Source: Conservatives Maintain Edge as Top Ideological Group

So much for the Death of Conservatism. More Americans identify themselves as Conservatives than before the 2008 election. They have now seen liberalism, and they don't like it. They have seen moderation, and they find it ineffective at combating liberalism. They have also seen conservatism, and they increasingly indentify with what it represents.

In that sense Obama is turning out to be the best thing that could have happened to Conservatism in America. He's shown the American people an option that they DON'T like, and they are reacting to it.

You can bet the Republican Party is seeing this trend... and starting to vote accordingly in Congress. And if the Party wants to survive, they'll have to move to the RIGHT to pick up these conservative votes.

The rumors of the demise of Conservatism in America have been greatly exagerated.

Elliot

tomder55 · Oct 29, 2009, 06:51 AM

Quote:

However, I have the feeling I have read something like this before in Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations.

The philosophical basis has not changed. Levin's book works because it makes the conservative message relevent to today;and he lays waste to some of the false assumptions about what conservatism means ...and for that matter exposes the left argument for what it is ;a road to tyranny. .

ETWolverine · Oct 29, 2009, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUT317

Elliot, You seemed to have summarized "Liberty and Tyranny" very well. I attempt to get a copy and read it. However, I have the feeling I have read something like this before in Adam Smith's Wealth of Nations.

Liberty and Tyranny is very much a distillation of Locke, Burke, Jefferson, Smith, Lincoln and all the other great conservative thinkers throughout history. Much of what you see in the book will be repetitive of those great thinkers. Levin admits that he hasn't created anything new with his book, he has simply retated the old thoughts in a new way and applied it to modern issues. The one great advance that the book makes over its predecesors is in its clear contrast between conservatism and statism, a contrast that, to my knowledge, has not been made in such a clear manner before.

It's STILL a terrific book for understanding the genesis of conservatism and how conservative thought can be applied to solve todays issues.

Elliot

excon · Oct 29, 2009, 08:39 AM

Hello T:

If you want to read about conservatism WITHOUT the moral/religious overtones, read Harry Browne's "How To Live Free In An Unfree World". Read Robert Ringer's "Restoring the American Dream", or read any of Ayn Rands stuff.

Read about the conservatism of Barry Goldwater, the Republican nominee for president in '64. His nickname WAS Mr. Conservative. Check out Ron Paul, Republican/Libertarian from Texas.

These sources'll give you a far broader idea about what conservatism is rather than the modern day narrow view presented on these pages.

excon

ETWolverine · Oct 29, 2009, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

These sources'll give you a far broader idea about what conservatism is rather than the modern day narrow view presented on these pages.

excon

The modern-day view, huh...

Like citations from Locke, Jefferson, Lincoln, Smith, Franklin, Burke, etc.

Perhaps you ought to read it before rejecting it.

But then again, by your own admission you don't read what WE write before rejecting it, so why should we be surprised that you would reject Levin's book that way?

Elliot

excon · Oct 29, 2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETWolverine

But then again, by your own admission you don't read what WE write before rejecting it, so why should we be surprised that you would reject Levin's book that way?

Hello again, Elliot:

What I read was your synopsis of it above. That was enough. It's swill.

excon

ETWolverine · Oct 29, 2009, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Elliot:

What I read was your synopsis of it above. That was enough. It's swill.

excon

Actually, it wasn't my synopsis. It is taken verbatum from the final chapter of the book, from Levin's site.

But you don't seem to have any response to any of it. So all you've got is name-calling.

Sux being so badly outclassed, don't it.

Elliot

tomder55 · Oct 29, 2009, 10:08 AM

or if you want to read where socialist liberal statism leads to I suggest Friedrich von Hayek (recipient of the Nobel Memorial Prize in Economic Sciences in 1974) The Road to Serfdom (1944)

excon · Oct 29, 2009, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETWolverine

But you don't seem to have any response to any of it. So all you've got is name-calling.

Hello again, Elliot:

I believe I mentioned above the moral/religious aspects of his/your conservatism. I believe any one who is capable of reading the kings English will be able to find them in your/his screed. They're glaringly obvious.

I was simply suggesting some conservative resources where those things are ABSENT.

That's what you could call a pre emptive response.

excon

ETWolverine · Oct 29, 2009, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by excon

Hello again, Elliot:

I believe I mentioned above the moral/religious aspects of his/your conservatism. I believe any one who is capable of reading the kings English will be able to find them in your/his screed. They're glaringly obvious.

I was simply suggesting some conservative resources where those things are ABSENT.

That's what you could call a pre emptive response.

excon

Conservatism, REAL Conservatism, not the wishy-washy stuff that the moderate Republicans call conservatism, has morality and G-d at its core. At its core, Conservatism is about the G-d-given inalienable rights of man that is spoken of in the Declaration of Independence.

If it doesn't have G-d and morality at it's core, it isn't Conservatism. It MIGHT be libertarianism. It might share some opinions with Conservatism. But it ain't Conservatism.

That would be why you had to choose noted self-proclaimed LIBERTARIANS like Ayn Rand, Robert Ringer, Harry Browne, and RuPaul, instead of finding real Conservatives for people to read. You couldn't find any Conservatives, especially not classical ones, that don't mention G-d and morality. They don't exist.

As for Goldwater, here's my favorite Goldwater quote:

“I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them. It is not to inaugurate new programs, but to cancel old ones that do violence to the Constitution or that have failed their purpose, or that impose on the people an unwarranted financial burden. I will not attempt to discover whether legislation is ``needed'' before I have first determined whether it is constitutionally permissible. And if I should later be attacked for neglecting my constituents "interests,'' I shall reply that I was informed that their main interest is liberty and that in that cause I am doing the very best I can.”

That quote pretty much matches the Levin citation I posted above.

Game, set and match.

Elliot

excon · Oct 29, 2009, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETWolverine

You couldn't find any Conservatives, especially not classical ones, that don't mention G-d and morality. They don't exist.

Game, set and match.

Hello again, Elliot:

It pains me to keep reminding you of what I said. I mean, it wasn't more than a couple hours ago and you forgot already... Oh well, its my job.

I believe I DID mention the Republican candidate for president in 1964, Barry Goldwater, who was nicknamed MR. CONSERVATIVE. I don't expect that you'll accept him as a REAL conservative, however, simply because he doesn't share your bigotry.

But, no matter what you say, you don't get any more Conservative than Senator Goldwater...

As a matter of fact, much of what you call conservatism today, is really LIBERALISM is disguise. You believe in using the power of government to enforce YOUR social agenda. You don't get more liberal than that. The DEA that your standard right wing Republican thinks is great is a good example, but is as LIBERAL a program as you get.

REAL conservatives, on the other hand, don't believe in imposing their morality on the masses.

excon