For school we're having to write a persuasive paper on a topic of our chosing. I recently had to switch mine because, i was having issues finding information on my other topic. The topic i got switchted to is 'Contraception in schools' basically whether or not school nurses should or should be allowed to give out contraceptives, confidetially and at low cost. Just out of curiosity more than anything i was wondering what Other people thought about this topic. Any of your opinions would be apretiated, and/or imformation that could help me with my paper...

speechlesstx

I believe that just may be the mother of all assumptions, and I darn sure value human life more than to destroy it on such an assumption.

Wow, talk about fear factor. According to the CDC:

If the abortion rights crowd is correct in that teens under 16 are "5 times more likely" to die during childbirth, that puts their chances of dying from complications at .0375 percent if my math is correct. The child's odds of dying from an abortion are pretty much 100 percent.

The fetus at 20 weeks, courtesy of the Texas State Dept of Health:


The fetus at 28 weeks, courtesy of the Texas State Dept of Health:


The fetus at 22 weeks, courtesy of the Texas State Dept of Health:


The fetus at 24 weeks, courtesy of the Texas State Dept of Health:


It seems clear to me from these images from the weeks you mentioned it is a child.

First of all Charlotte I have every right to express my opinion just as you do, so let's dispense with the "you have no right to say" nonsense. It's just a discussion, I'm not imposing my values on anyone. But, this discussion on birth control in schools has been largely about education and facts, and I'm backing my post up with the facts. Whether or not you buy into the justification for aborting a 20 week old fetus or that it may or may not feel pain until week 28 is your business. I see the fingers and toes of a child.

speechlesstx

Alt, I watch the news every day, read the paper every day, get glimpses of the news on the internet every day...I cannot recall the last time I heard or read a story about some teenager "tossing it in a trash can or leaving it on the bathroom floor of a public restroom." Can you point those out for me please?

Just so you'll know, the first mention of abortion on this post was by charlotte234s. I just followed where the discussion went.

Thanks for allowing me to express my opinion. That's part of what makes this a great country, the right to object to insane, intrusive and subversive policies. Just so you know, I have no kids at home and but I do speak from experience concerning the kind of "education," "help" and "health care" that PP gives and demands for our children.

I speak from my experience as what I see as not only PP failing my daughter but my own failures to my daughter. I know our kids will do what they're going to do and I know we need to do our best to educate them, foster good decision making skills and I know we can't lock them up. But I also know there has to be a better way than surrendering our children to "they're going to do it anyway," subjecting them to the kind of "education" and "health care" that PP has in mind - and ceding the right of parents to make those determinations for the children in their care.

speechlesstx

It's not even 15 year olds, I think every 10 or 12 year old knows their parents can't make them do anything. That's the result of the "children's rights" movement. You can't even take your child to the pediatrician any more without being under suspicion.

speechlesstx

Condoms are readily available, and I agree BC isn't for little girls and should not be in schools but what is "old enough?"

jillianleab

Actually, MOST abortions are performed before 12 weeks

Between 1996 and 2002, the number of abortions in the U.S. fell from 1.36 million to 1.29 million (Finer & Henshaw, 2003; Guttmacher Institute, 2006). The U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimates that 60.5 percent of legal abortions occur within the first eight weeks of gestation, and 88.2 percent are performed within the first 12 weeks. Only 1.4 percent occur after 20 weeks (CDC, 2006).

Not that this thread is about abortion, nor is it likely to make speech or anyone else switch to the pro-choice side, but let's at least be clear on the facts.

Also, women who abort after the first trimester tend to do so because of medical concerns, not because the baby is "inconvenient"

In a recent survey of U.S. women choosing to terminate their pregnancies, significantly more women in their second trimester cited fetal health concerns than women in their first trimester. The fetal health concerns they cited included the risk of fetal anomaly due to advanced maternal age, a history of miscarriage, a lack of prenatal care, and fetal exposure to prescription medications and non-prescription substances (Finer et al., 2005).

Conditions in which the woman’s health is threatened or aggravated by continuing her pregnancy include
certain types of infections
heart failure
malignant hypertension, including preeclampsia
out-of-control diabetes
serious renal disease
severe depression
suicidal tendencies

speechlesstx

I'm all for the facts, I don't think they're "useless" as someone else said. But no, there are no facts that will convince me that what's inside the womb is not human life. It clearly is. Look, I don't hold the position that "abortion is never necessary," I think the data on that is probably mixed. I'm sure the decision can be excruciatingly difficult, but it would be less difficult if the abortion crowd and the medical community had not devalued human life to the point that a growing fetus is merely a "non-viable tissue mass" and positioned abortion as a "solution" to irresponsible behavior.

To me that just about sums it up, the advocates of BC in schools and comprehensive sex education have for decades encouraged and enabled that irresponsible behavior over encouraging kids to keep their pants on until they are mature enough to handle it. It hasn't worked, and that is a large reason why schools are now considering this radical step of furnishing BC to teens. You don't feed their desires and expect the situation to improve - very few horny 16 year old boys are going to care if they forgot to pack a condom when that cute little thang offers him sex.

jillianleab

I didn't expect it to change your mind, nor did I expect you to object to using facts.

I agree with you to a point that many in the abortion crowd and medical community have a way of passing abortion off as a simple solution with no emotional repercussions. That simply isn't true, and if someone decides to have unprotected sex because "I can just get an abortion if I get pregnant" that's INCREDIBLY dangerous thinking. I would, however, like to point out there is a big difference between being pro-choice and being pro-abortion (at least I think there is). Pro-abortion people advocate it, think there's nothing wrong with it, and see it as a easy fix. Pro-choice people support a woman's right to choose, but recognize it's NOT an easy fix and that there are emotional and psychological strains that come with making such a decision.

I guess we will have to agree to disagree with regards to comprehensive sex ed. I honestly think if we started exposing kids to learning about relationships, respect for themselves, alternative activities and so on from a young age and later turn that into biological facts and sexual facts there could be a decrease in teen sex. As I said before, I don't think we need to be teaching 6-year olds how to have oral sex, but to me, comprehensive doesn't mean that; it means talking and learning about all aspects of relationships and socialization.

Does anyone know the legal age for medical informed consent in the US? At what age can a person make their own medical decisions without having to tell their parents? I THINK it is 16, but I could be wrong. If it is, it's quite a loophole the clinics at these middle schools have used to administer the pill (get a blanket consent form for everything). I did see an article however, that the school in Maine requires girls have a physical exam from the clinic doctors and receive counseling services prior to being put on the pill. So it's not like the school nurse is handing the pill out like candy, which makes me feel a little better. Only a little. The same article said that of the girls who went to the clinic (about 160) only five admitted to being sexually active, and all were 14 or 15. Again, it makes me feel a little better that this school doesn't have a rash of sexually active 11 year olds. Still, only a little better though.

inthebox

"I honestly think if we started exposing kids to learning about relationships, respect for themselves, alternative activities and so on from a young age and later turn that into biological facts and sexual facts there could be a decrease in teen sex."

Absolutely

teach self respect and respect for the other person in a relationship before ...

speechlesstx

Nah, I didn't expect that you expected you would expect me to change my mind. How's that for mangled grammar?

As to the rest of your last post let me first say I've enjoyed discussing this with you, hope you don't mind some of my sarcasm. But anyway, yes there is a difference between pro-choice and pro-abortion but I think the main "pro-choice" advocacy groups have been less than honest - I would say devious.

In this day nobody wants to appear "pro-abortion," it isn't a winning position to champion what many see as the murder of a child. So what they've done is changed their terminology, it's ever evolving. "Safe sex" is now "safer sex." Pro-abortion is now "pro-choice." "Anti-abortion" is "anti-choice," "pro-lifers" are becoming "forced pregnancy activists," while "pro-choice" has become "reproductive freedom." Well, one has the "reproductive freedom" to abstain from sex thus avoiding "unforced pregnancy" and the need to "choose" "reproductive health care." They make it all sound so liberating...

jillianleab

Actually, I think you got it right!

Bah! I never mind sarcasm! In fact, it drives me nuts when I try to discuss things with people who don't GET it....

I think we can both agree there are extremists on both sides of the fence (like oh so many other things....). There are the pro-lifers who assault or murder doctors, or assault women who are going into a clinic. There are pro-choicers who take a cavalier attitude to abortion, and certainly those who lie to women about the developmental phase the fetus is in (though I've seen pro-lifers exaggerate this as well). There's a documentary you should check out; Unborn in the USA: Inside the War on Abortion (2007) about the pro-life movement. I thought it was pretty unbiased, but some of the participants felt otherwise after some reviews came out (which you can read if you google the title). It was insightful for me, and really made me look at abortion in a different way (didn't change me mind, but made me realize more what a really difficult decision it is). Basically it follows some key people in the pro-life movement and documents their activities, thoughts, etc. To some it shows the lunacy in what they do, but to others it shows WHY they use the methods they do.

BOTH sides have instances where they've been less than honest, which is what is such a shame. This goes for BC as well; where can you go to get information that is unbiased and honest? Where someone doesn't have an agenda? Though I agree with the mission of PP, I do question the motives of some individuals who work there, because let's face it, it's a sensitive issue. And that's where you get into trouble - the face people of your organization don't honor your mission, and it gives the whole company a bad name.

As far as the terminology... it's all PR spin, from both sides. I think there are some people on each side who really care about the women involved, and others who are just in it to "win". Again, that applies to so, so many other things as well!