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I was wondering what peoploe think about organizations like the ACLU trying to get christian icons removed from public schools. They go as far as saying that even the colors red and green count as icons for christmas and should not be used. It seems to me they are a bunch of people who fight for freedom of expression and religion as long as your not a christian. In case anyone doesn't believe they (ACLU) aren't radicals, Hellen Keller was extremely radical (on the socialist side, which is understanable from her past of overcoming disabilities) and helped in the establishment of the ACLU. Any ideas? Further, are there any christians out there who are offended when corporations prohibit employees from wishing you a merry christmas?
Straight from the dictinoary:Biology it's the life processes or characteristic phenomena of a group or category of living organisms, including their structure, function, growth, origin, evolution, and distribution
ID does all of this. If you don't like it you can write webster and tell him he's wrong.
Ok so you can cut&paste from a website.
Now please address this point
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Originally Posted by Curlyben
How can creationism be taught as a SCIENCE when it is based TOTALLY on faith ?
Just to help you out here
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dictionary.com
sci·ence Audio pronunciation of "science" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sns)
n.
1.
1. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
2. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
3. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.
2. Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
3. An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dictionary.com
faith Audio pronunciation of "faith" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fth)
n.
1. Confident belief in the truth, value, or trustworthiness of a person, idea, or thing.
2. Belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence. See Synonyms at belief. See Synonyms at trust.
3. Loyalty to a person or thing; allegiance: keeping faith with one's supporters.
4. often Faith Christianity. The theological virtue defined as secure belief in God and a trusting acceptance of God's will.
5. The body of dogma of a religion: the Muslim faith.
6. A set of principles or beliefs.
Hi,
I haven't responded to specific questions, to "prove" points, as others seem to really like doing. They have time to sit at their computer all day; I don't.
Yet you spend all day posting on at least 3 discussion boards.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredg
Facts about certain issues can be found anywhere on the web, and not worth the time to re-print, or research by me. If anyone has any questions about what someone else states, they can research it themselves on the web; find out if what is stated is really true or not; whether it's any of my statements, or statements others make.
I see you believe that segregation was a good thing and blacks should seat at the back of the bus.
...Anyways, someone mentioned that public schools force christianity upon students if there are religious icons. Prepostorous!!!! Let me tell all of you one thing that has bothered me most about the liberal garbage i read everyday in this country. prohibing the colors of CHRISTmas is rediculous! Another example is not allowing intelligent design to be taught in school. Think about this: We are bringing up an ignorant genereation of youth. They are ignorant to things like culture, religions in our country, and accurate history of our nation. But they aren't ignorant to things like sex, drugs, etc. It kills me to see this happening. Is it so wrong to have "under God" in the pledge. NO, it's not the students complaining it's the stubborn parents. Leacing it in there actually teaches our children that the framers WERE strongly Christian. PSI42 is completely wrong and needs to go back to school. Yes, that's right, the foudning fathers of this country were christian and DID base many things that they did off of that belief. Here in Iowa CIty, there is a muslim girl who isn't even a citizen but making a problem b/c they are going to build a statue of an angel fo hope in a public park. She's an idiot! The city isn't even paying for it, the money is coming from donations made by people. Being ignorant to other cultures results with genecide. ignorance to one's own culture leads to suicide. Present time, it's not PC for a christian like me to say stuff like this. Yet, ACLU and other crack heads like them can do whatever they want. Our society is leaning to become anti christian. The ten commandments aren't offensive to anyone but some loud mouth that wants to be on CNN. Fact: The definition of a religion is A) a belief in God, or B) a system of beliefs. Atheism is a RELIGION b/c it's based on a belief of secularism, and belief in No deity. By eliminating all religious icons we are endorsing their religion. This is irrefultable fact. You are violating my rights to represent my religion in this nation.
Stated earlier by scott (i think) it was said religion is a social construct. So's race. It's a social construct and has no biological reasoning behind it (confirmed by Harvard University). So why is it that you dem's fight for affirmative action, but don't fight for religious equality. You may say you do, but by tearing down my religion not just in papers, but even in forums like these (it happens all the time) you are discriminating against me.
Sorry for the ramble there. ANyways, my main point is though, that we are teaching ignorance in our schools. The history they learn is fabricated. All they learn about is secularism. THere are secular ways of teaching religion, and it can only help them. The only thing is that all the muslim, jewish, atheist, etc, parents out there are worried that there children might be free-thinkers and convert to christianity. That's where the problem is. People tend to think that they have a right to interpret the constitution as though they were the Supreme Court. Well you're not. Freedom of Religion means to not set a specific national government. Not, prohibit religion from public places.
I'm not going to respond again to the diatribe against the ACLU since I've already done so enough. I agree with you that prohibting the colors of Xmas is ridiculous.
As for intelligent design, I actually believe in intelligent design, but maybe not the way the religious right does. In another thread I discussed my beliefs as a deist. Basically that some intelligent force created the universe and then left it alone to develop. This to me is intelligent design. I see no conflict with intelligent design and evolution. If an intelligent force created the universe, why couldn't evolution be part of that design? It makes much more sense to me that such a force created the ground rules and let those rules work.
You are correct when you say that "Freedom of Religion means to not set a specific national government (I think you meant religion)". But its not Freedom of religion that prohibits "religion from public places". Its Separatation of Church and State. That's a different issue. And that's the mistake you make. No one is stopping you from worshipping or beleiving what you want. The point is preventing the use public property and/or funding to promote any religion.
Also, your "irrefutable fact" is not a fact at all. I'm not sure I agree that atheism constitutes a "system of beliefs". Rather its the ABSENCE of belief.
You complain bitterly about education not teaching enough. But you totally neglect the role of parents in this. I was not taught religion in schools, but my parents made sure I was aware of other cultures. In another post I spoke of attending the Brotherhood Synagogue. I was given books to read about different cultures. The point is, its not up to PUBLIC schools to promote religion, that's a task for the home. And if students reject the teachings its the fault of the parents.
Finally, I must comment on your chauvanisitic statement that other religions are afraid their children will convert to Chritianity. Isn't it just as possible that christian children might choose to convert to other religions?
But the issue is Separation of Church and State. Its not prejudice or persecution of any specific religion. Its making sure that there is no hint of state support for any one religion.
Ok time to take a breath and get off your high horse !
How can creationism be taught as a SCIENCE when it is based TOTALLY on faith ?
At least Evolution is a Theory and untill it is disproved or updated its the best we have.
Creationism has it place in Religious Studies NOT in science.
There is this absolutely great scene in Inherit The Wind (the play based on the Scopes Monkey Trial). In the scene the character representing Clarence Darrow askes the character repesenting William Jennings Bryan how long the first day was!
Creationism is a strict interpretation of the Bible. The Bible is a set of stories handed down thru the ages to account for natural phenomena. As such, to apply a strict interpretion would not seem to make sense. Creationism is based solely on religion and has no place in scientific teaching. I don't believe that the story of creation conflicts directly with evolution.
Is it so wrong to have "under God" in the pledge. NO, it's not the students complaining it's the stubborn parents. Leacing it in there actually teaches our children that the framers WERE strongly Christian. PSI42 is completely wrong and needs to go back to school. Yes, that's right, the foudning fathers of this country were christian and DID base many things that they did off of that belief.
Okay, first off, we need to recognize the founding fathers _did_ have their flaws. The ideal of America is to make things _better_ not to live in the eighteenth century.
Second off, many of the founders were Deists.
Third off, I never said none of the founders were Christian. I said America was never a Christian nation. There's a difference.
Quote:
Fact: The definition of a religion is A) a belief in God, or B) a system of beliefs. Atheism is a RELIGION b/c it's based on a belief of secularism, and belief in No deity. By eliminating all religious icons we are endorsing their religion. This is irrefultable fact.
No, that's just silly. Religion is based on faith, science is based on evidence and logic.
Quote:
People tend to think that they have a right to interpret the constitution as though they were the Supreme Court. Well you're not. Freedom of Religion means to not set a specific national government. Not, prohibit religion from public places.
Ahem. Why don't you consult the Supreme Court about "separation of Church and State."
They are ignorant to things like culture, religions in our country, and accurate history of our nation. But they aren't ignorant to things like sex, drugs, etc. It kills me to see this happening. Is it so wrong to have "under God" in the pledge. NO, it's not the students complaining it's the stubborn parents. Leacing it in there actually teaches our children that the framers WERE strongly Christian. PSI42 is completely wrong and needs to go back to school. Yes, that's right, the foudning fathers of this country were christian and DID base many things that they did off of that belief.
I missed this the first read. Yes the founding fathers were on the surface christian. But that's because colonists came from christian countries. What the founding fathers based things on was the judeo-christian ethic, not specifically christian religion. The important point is that religious freedom and separation of church and state were important to them. I was a poli sci major and I did my senior thesis on the Articles of Confederation. So I did a great deal of research into the backgrounds and thoughts of the founding fathers. I can say with confidence that founding fathers would not agree with your position.
But what really sinks you is your reference to "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegience. You need to learn the history of the Pledge. In fact, the Pledge was never even envisioned by the Founding Fathers. The Pedge was written in 1892 by a Baptist minister who was expressing the ideas of his cousin, a utopian socialist! The original Pledge did NOT include "Under God". That was added in 1954 based on a campaign by the Knights of Columbus. According to surviving relatives of the original author he would have objected to that change.
Up untill you got to the point of seperation of Church and State you were basicly right, it is often sad to see educated people having been taught this falsehood. Indeed they wanted the church to be protected from the state, but there is no, and never was historicly a seperation of Church and State. Indeed, cities were designed with the church as the main part of the city. All of the education system of the early nation was all religious.
And the major universities were all relgious based.
God was thanked for all the things he had done for our nation in almost ever form.
The seperation statement not done untill Thomas Jeffererson, in a speach, never in law, was again based for the protection of the Church.
But even on the forming of our nation, there was never true religious freedom, The Church of England was basicly an enemy church and members had to form a new church since membership in the Church of England required loyalty to the King of England. So they were not free in thier religious belief during the revolutionary war.
The idea of a plege, and other added things the US has is indeed added, but even then the fact that our government felt we were based under God at that time in history even adds how much more the US was faith based still to that time. It has only been recently when our nation has tried to remove God from its teaching.
And in doing so, also trying to re-write history by changing the base of God's role in the forming of our nation, and the faith of its founders.
But then those of extreme liberal nature are also re-writing or at least finding new meanings to the bible itself to justify their personal beleifs and ideas.
So to with the doing away with religion in schools, court houses and public display, they are reaching into individual teachings of some of the founding fathers, the influence of laws of varoius other nations as an outline to determine what they want the words of the constitution to say.
And even then, in most cases the votes in the Supreme Court are normally very split, which means that the idea being voted on is not agreed to as correct merley an opinion based on thier beliefs.
So in general the same exact ruling, if a case came back with a new court may easily be found to go the other direction.
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