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    Skell's Avatar
    Skell Posts: 1,863, Reputation: 514
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    #141

    Mar 16, 2009, 06:11 PM

    I don't know Steve. You confuse me. Generally you post articles debunking climate change, now you post articles about the dangers of climate change simply simply so you can throw in a crack at Obama.
    Im with Excon, you guys look so foolish when you post an article about a bit of snow fall in the US at an unusual time of year as proof that climate change doesn't exist.
    Im not convinced either, but I know it's a little more complex than cool fronts and weather patterns in the US. I know a lot of you forget there is a whole other world out there but you guys are usually a little smarter than that.
    Down under here we have had the worst bush fires in our history flamed by years of drought and extreme heat. 100's lost their lives and 1000's homeless. But me posting articles on that doesn't prove climate change exists anymore than you posting articles on a blizzards in Texas proves it's a load of BS.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #142

    Mar 17, 2009, 04:59 AM
    Ah Skell, I don't generally post articles on a single event as "proof" of global warming, I post them for the irony - like when a major snowstorm hits on the day of a climate change rally or every time Gore shows up. Hence my comment on Gore not being around even though it snowed here last week. It was JOKE, as in It snowed in Texas last week so Al Gore must have been in town.

    Sadly though, Obama wasn't joking when he claimed his selection "was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow." Any politician that makes a statement with such unbelievable hubris is going to receive a good amount of contempt in return.

    Look, I know climate change happens, I've acknowledged it many times. You have my sympathies for the drought and fires you've experienced, I don't live in just my own little world with no regard for others. I'm also not going to roll over for a political agenda while there is so much evidence to the contrary being ignored.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #143

    Mar 19, 2009, 09:43 AM
    Scientists say the West Antarctic ice sheet is likely to melt... in one to two thousand years. Maybe. They don't know for sure because "there are still so many unknowns about how Antarctic ice behaves." Nevertheless, we need to set a "sea level limit" at about three feet of sea level rise" just to be cautious.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #144

    Mar 19, 2009, 10:41 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    Nevertheless, we need to set a "sea level limit" at about three feet of sea level rise" just to be cautious.
    Hello again, Steve:

    I agree. And if the ocean breaks the law, it should be waterboarded.

    excon
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #145

    Mar 19, 2009, 10:56 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by excon View Post
    Hello again, Steve:

    I agree. And if the ocean breaks the law, it should be waterboarded.
    LOL, very good, ex.
    inthebox's Avatar
    inthebox Posts: 787, Reputation: 179
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    #146

    Mar 19, 2009, 01:59 PM

    Has "global warming" given way to "climate change."

    I notice how they use them interchangeably.

    Now the envirotyrants can claim that when when it is TOO HOT or TOO COLD it is mankind's fault, and they have solutions that entails either income redistribution through taxes or limiting liberty and choice.

    Question is has climate NEVER CHANGED?
    I bet you it was changing long before mankind was ever around - the dinosaurs would know :);)



    G&P
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #147

    Mar 19, 2009, 03:33 PM

    Hello again,

    At the risk of being a bore, I must point out that even if the Goricle is wrong, it's still not good to throw our trash into our atmosphere.

    So, as long as the solution is correct, I couldn't care less if the reason for doing the correct thing might have been wrong.

    That is, of course, unless you don't think we're running out of oil.

    excon
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #148

    Mar 23, 2009, 12:53 PM
    Ex, at the risk of sounding repetitive, I think we all agree that trashing the air is a bad thing. But your reasoning? Sounds like something some conservative would say about the Iraq war... but, I digress.

    Todays' global warming update comes courtesy of the State of California, home of Hollywood, TV, movies, all the reasons we're enticed to by that 40" plasma TV.

    State considers ban on big screen TVs

    In their continuing quest to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, state regulators have uncovered a new villain in the war on global warming : your big screen TV

    Couch potatoes, beware.

    The California Energy Commission is considering a proposal that would ban California retailers from selling all but the most energy-efficient televisions. Critics say the news standards could take 25 percent of televisions off the market — most of them 40 inches or larger.

    “The larger the television, the more at risk it is of being banned unnecessarily in California,” said Douglas Johnson, senior director of technology police for the Consumer Electronics Association.

    Association officials say the standards are not only unnecessary – because the federal government already regulates energy efficiency through the voluntary Energy Star program — but also ill-timed. The last thing our economy needs now is products taken off the market, they say.

    Furthermore, they say that with a weak economy, consumers are going out less and watching TV more.

    “This is really about regulating entertainment, not energy use,” Johnson said.

    Poppycock, says the commission.

    Affordable big screen TVs will still be available under the new standards, spokesman Adam Gottlieb said. In fact, he said the regulations will save you money.

    The commission calculates that if you buy televisions meeting the proposed standards it’ll cut your annual energy use by — drum roll, please — $18 to $30.
    Is it about global warming? Ha! One of the supporters of the legislation is the LCD Manufacturers Association along with Wal*Mart, Sears, Costco, Sam's Club, and Frys, who I'm sure sell a lot of LCD TVs.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #149

    Mar 26, 2009, 05:34 AM
    Once again California is leading the way to a cooler planet. Up next for consideration, banning certain colors of cars.

    California to reduce carbon emissions by... banning black cars?!

    In a move that will likely get California's consumers in a huff, impending legislation may soon restrict the paint color options for Golden State residents looking for their next new vehicle. The specific colors that are currently on the chopping block are all dark hues, with the worst offender seemingly the most innocuous color you could think of: Black. What could California possibly have against these colors, you ask? Apparently, the California Air Resources Board figures that the climate control systems of dark colored cars need to work harder than their lighter siblings – especially after sitting in the sun for a few hours. Anyone living in a hot, sunny climate will tell you that this assumption is accurate, of course. In fact, legislation already exists for buildings that has proven successful at reducing the energy consumption of skyscrapers.

    So, what's the crux of the problem... can't paint suppliers just come up with new, less heat-absorbent dark paints? According to Ward's, suppliers have reportedly been testing their pigments and processes to see if it's possible to meet CARB's proposed mandate of 20% solar reflectivity by 2016 with a phase-in period starting in 2012, and things aren't looking good. Apparently, when the proper pigments and chemicals are added to black paint, the resulting color is currently being referred to as "mud-puddle brown." That doesn't sound very attractive, now does it? Windshields, backlights and sunroofs are also slated to get reflective coatings starting in 2012.

    When we first heard of this issue, an internal debate immediately began as to whether this might be an elaborate early April Fool's joke, but it isn't.
    Who'll be first for their "mud-puddle brown" Prius?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #150

    Mar 26, 2009, 06:12 AM

    It's a given that emissions of pollutants are bad. It is NOT a given that C02 is a pollutant (despite the nonsensical ruling by SCOTUS)
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #151

    Mar 26, 2009, 07:34 AM
    And Obama's EPA sent issued a report to the White House claiming CO2 is a pollutant that endangers public health under the Clean Air Act. That's absurd and dishonest.

    Speaking of the EPA, Obama's pick for no. 2 there stepped aside the day before his Senate hearing, over "scrutiny of his former affiliation with a now-defunct nonprofit that in 2007 was found by the EPA inspector general's office to have mismanaged more than $25 million in grants from the agency. "
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #152

    Mar 26, 2009, 01:35 PM
    Vote Earth! This Saturday you can join people all over the world in saving the planet by turning off your lights for an hour at 8:30 PM wherever you are...

    2,848 cities, towns and municipalities in 84 countries have already committed to VOTE EARTH for Earth Hour 2009, as part of the worlds first global election between Earth and global warming.
    On March 28 you can VOTE EARTH by switching off your lights for one hour.
    Or you can vote global warming by leaving your lights on.

    The results of the election are being presented at the Global Climate Change Conference in Copenhagen 2009. We want one billion votes for Earth, to tell world leaders that we have to take action against global warming.
    I vote for all the greens that “vote earth” to go live in a hut in Bangladesh…or maybe near Obama’s brother. That should leave plenty of light for the rest of us.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #153

    Mar 26, 2009, 01:50 PM
    Disclaimer: This is not proof that global warming is a hoax... I'm just saying:

    The Texas Panhandle is expecting a low of 24 tonight and 6-17 inches of snow between now and Saturday. Guess I'll have to crank the heat back up for Earth Hour (and while Obama will still let me).
    galveston's Avatar
    galveston Posts: 451, Reputation: 60
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    #154

    Mar 26, 2009, 02:13 PM

    Yeah, just when the "greens" think they have all the answers, nature moons them!

    PS: I'm going to pass on that thing about turning my lights off at 8:30. They go off enough for me already. Night before last they were off from about 9:30 to about 1:00 AM.

    If government doesn't get out of the way and allow more generating plants to be built, rolling black outs will get those lights off and help save the planet.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #155

    Mar 27, 2009, 11:26 AM
    The Civil Heretic

    FOR MORE THAN HALF A CENTURY the eminent physicist Freeman Dyson has quietly resided in Prince­ton, N.J. on the wooded former farmland that is home to his employer, the Institute for Advanced Study, this country’s most rarefied community of scholars. Lately, however, since coming “out of the closet as far as global warming is concerned,” as Dyson sometimes puts it, there has been noise all around him. Chat rooms, Web threads, editors’ letter boxes and Dyson’s own e-mail queue resonate with a thermal current of invective in which Dyson has discovered himself variously described as “a pompous twit,” “a blowhard,” “a cesspool of misinformation,” “an old coot riding into the sunset” and, perhaps inevitably, “a mad scientist.” Dyson had proposed that whatever inflammations the climate was experiencing might be a good thing because carbon dioxide helps plants of all kinds grow. Then he added the caveat that if CO2 levels soared too high, they could be soothed by the mass cultivation of specially bred “carbon-eating trees,” whereupon the University of Chicago law professor Eric Posner looked through the thick grove of honorary degrees Dyson has been awarded — there are 21 from universities like Georgetown, Princeton and Oxford — and suggested that “perhaps trees can also be designed so that they can give directions to lost hikers.” Dyson’s son, George, a technology historian, says his father’s views have cooled friendships, while many others have concluded that time has cost Dyson something else. There is the suspicion that, at age 85, a great scientist of the 20th century is no longer just far out, he is far gone — out of his beautiful mind.

    But in the considered opinion of the neurologist Oliver Sacks, Dyson’s friend and fellow English expatriate, this is far from the case. “His mind is still so open and flexible,” Sacks says. Which makes Dyson something far more formidable than just the latest peevish right-wing climate-change denier. Dyson is a scientist whose intelligence is revered by other scientists — William Press, former deputy director of the Los Alamos National Laboratory and now a professor of computer science at the University of Texas, calls him “infinitely smart.” Dyson — a mathematics prodigy who came to this country at 23 and right away contributed seminal work to physics by unifying quantum and electrodynamic theory — not only did path-breaking science of his own; he also witnessed the development of modern physics, thinking alongside most of the luminous figures of the age, including Einstein, Richard Feynman, Niels Bohr, Enrico Fermi, Hans Bethe, Edward Teller, J. Robert Oppenheimer and Edward Witten, the “high priest of string theory” whose office at the institute is just across the hall from Dyson’s. Yet instead of hewing to that fundamental field, Dyson chose to pursue broader and more unusual pursuits than most physicists — and has lived a more original life.

    Among Dyson’s gifts is interpretive clarity, a penetrating ability to grasp the method and significance of what many kinds of scientists do. His thoughts about how science works appear in a series of lucid, elegant books for nonspecialists that have made him a trusted arbiter of ideas ranging far beyond physics. Dyson has written more than a dozen books, including “Origins of Life” (1999), which synthesizes recent discoveries by biologists and geologists into an evaluation of the double-origin hypothesis, the possibility that life began twice; “Disturbing the Universe” (1979) tries among other things to reconcile science and humanity. “Weapons and Hope” (1984) is his meditation on the meaning and danger of nuclear weapons that won a National Book Critics Circle Award. Dyson’s books display such masterly control of complex matters that smart young people read him and want to be scientists; older citizens finish his books and feel smart.
    Except the dedicated global warming consensus, they can't even take the ideas of such a reputable scholar seriously - they'll attack anyone that doesn't walk in lockstep. But in this case, they can't ignore this guy either. :D
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #156

    Apr 11, 2009, 05:50 AM
    More evidence that global warming is "human-caused."

    NASA: Clean-air regs, not CO2, are melting the ice cap

    New research from NASA suggests that the Arctic warming trend seen in recent decades has indeed resulted from human activities: but not, as is widely assumed at present, those leading to carbon dioxide emissions. Rather, Arctic warming has been caused in large part by laws introduced to improve air quality and fight acid rain.

    Dr Drew Shindell of NASA's Goddard Institute of Space Studies has led a new study which indicates that much of the general upward trend in temperatures since the 1970s - particularly in the Arctic - may have resulted from changes in levels of solid "aerosol" particles in the atmosphere, rather than elevated CO2. Arctic temperatures are of particular concern to those worried about the effects of global warming, as a melting of the ice cap could lead to disastrous rises in sea level - of a sort which might burst the Thames Barrier and flood London, for instance.

    Shindell's research indicates that, ironically, much of the rise in polar temperature seen over the last few decades may have resulted from US and European restrictions on sulphur emissions. According to NASA:

    Sulfates, which come primarily from the burning of coal and oil, scatter incoming solar radiation and have a net cooling effect on climate. Over the past three decades, the United States and European countries have passed a series of laws that have reduced sulfate emissions by 50 percent. While improving air quality and aiding public health, the result has been less atmospheric cooling from sulfates.

    Meanwhile, levels of black-carbon aerosols (soot, in other words) have been rising, largely driven by greater industrialisation in Asia. Soot, rather than reflecting heat as sulphates do, traps solar energy in the atmosphere and warms things up.

    The Arctic is especially subject to aerosol effects, says Shindell, because the planet's main industrialised areas are all in the northern hemisphere and because there's not much precipitation to wash the air clean.

    "Right now, in the mid-latitudes of the Northern Hemisphere and in the Arctic, the impact of aerosols is just as strong as that of the greenhouse gases," says Shindell.
    Or did it? They can't seem to make up their minds.

    Other scientists have recently suggested that it's not just the Arctic which is subject to aerosol effects. Boffins from the US National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration have said that aerosol levels from dust storms and volcanoes alone would account for as much as 70 per cent of the temperature rise seen in the Atlantic ocean during the past 26 years, leaving carbon simply nowhere...

    There might not even be any need for action on the part of the West, with China building sulphur-belching coal power stations and diesel vehicles at a furious rate in recent times. Dr Shindell doesn't say so, but it's at least possible that this has something to do with the fact that global temperatures have actually dipped slightly over the last couple of years.
    This is all too confusing, we caused global warming by driving our SUV's, belching out CO2 that trees and plants thrive on and by cleaning the air. Or was it dust and such from dust storms and volcanoes? And the temperature is dropping?

    Nevertheless, "shooting pollution particles into the upper atmosphere to reflect the sun's rays" is a possible solution to it all says Obama's new science adviser.

    "It's got to be looked at," he said. "We don't have the luxury of taking any approach off the table."
    What could possibly go wrong there?
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
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    #157

    Apr 11, 2009, 06:11 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by speechlesstx View Post
    What could possibly go wrong there?
    Hello again, Steve:

    You're right. Those Obama scientists don't know squat... So, until they get their act together, we can keep throwing our trash into the air. That can't hurt anything, right??

    excon
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #158

    Apr 11, 2009, 07:26 AM

    we can keep throwing our trash into the air
    Sounds like Obama's solution is that very thing .

    BTW ;that is a false choice because it is unrelated . You can take steps to reduce harmful emissions without the chicken-little lies about the effects of human produced carbon dioxide.
    speechlesstx's Avatar
    speechlesstx Posts: 1,111, Reputation: 284
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    #159

    Apr 11, 2009, 08:17 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    sounds like Obama's solution is that very thing .
    Right, "shooting pollution particles into the upper atmosphere."

    BTW ;that is a false choice because it is unrelated . You can take steps to reduce harmful emissions without the chicken-little lies about the effects of human produced carbon dioxide.
    Right again.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
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    #160

    Apr 11, 2009, 08:35 AM
    Wonder what the carbon foot print is for the President to fly a pizza chef 850 miles to serve deep dish pizza to 140 guests at the White House yesterday?

    Wonder how much that cost the US taxpayers ?

    The Associated Press: Obama orders pizza from St. Louis, Chicago miffed


    What does Obama have in common with Kim Jong mentally Il ?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009...th-korea-pizza

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