Ask Experts Questions for FREE Help!
  Advanced
Register  |  Log in  
   Ask    
 Answer  
  Help  

Ask QuestionsprogressAnswer QuestionsprogressBuild ReputationprogressBecome an Expert
 
Free Answers in 3 Easy Steps

Register Now
3 Steps

At Ask Me Help Desk you can ask questions in any topic and have them answered for free by our experts. To ask questions or participate in answering them you must register for a free account. By registering you will be able to:
  • Get free answers from experts in any of our 300+ topics.
  • Accept money for answers that you provide.
  • Communicate privately with other members (PM).
  • See fewer ads.

Home > Forum Community > Member Discussions > Current Events   »   Another effort was made by Dubya trying to redefine or push the limits, as President.

 
Question Tools Search this Question Display Modes
Question
 
 
Old Mar 31, 2008, 05:56 PM
BABRAM's Avatar
BABRAM
Senior Member
BABRAM is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 532
BABRAM See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.BABRAM See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.
Another effort was made by Dubya trying to redefine or push the limits, as President.

In your own view did GW exceed his authority, not only on this issue which was ruled against him, but at other times? War? Privacy? Etc...


Supreme Court rules Bush exceeded his powers - Los Angeles Times


Supreme Court rules Bush exceeded his powers

Saying he does not have 'unilateral authority' to force states to comply with an international treaty, justices vote 6-3 to reject presidential order to reopen cases of foreign nationals.

By David G. Savage
Los Angeles Times Staff Writer

March 26, 2008

WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court rebuffed President Bush on Tuesday for exceeding his powers under the law, ruling he does not have the "unilateral authority" to force state officials to comply with an international treaty.

The Constitution gives the president the power "to execute the laws, not make them," said Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. Unless Congress passes a law to enforce a treaty, the president usually cannot do it on his own, he said.

The 6-3 decision was a rare defeat for Bush in the courts, and it came in an unusual case that combined international law, foreign treaties and the fate of foreign nationals condemned to die in Texas, California and several other states.

In a surprise move three years ago, Bush intervened on the side of the Mexican government and said Texas prosecutors should reopen the cases of Jose Medellin, a Houston murderer, and several others serving death sentences. Bush cited the Vienna Convention, which obliges signing countries to notify each other when one of their citizens is arrested and charged with a serious crime. Mexico said American prosecutors failed repeatedly to give notice when Mexican natives were charged with capital crimes.

In rejecting Bush's order Tuesday, the high court, led by its conservatives, took the opportunity to make a strong statement on the limits of presidential power.

Roberts cited the "first principles" of America's Constitution. "The president's authority to act, as with the exercise of any governmental power, must stem either from an act of Congress or from the Constitution itself," Roberts said. "[G]iven the absence of congressional legislation . . . the non-self- executing treaties at issue here did not expressly or impliedly vest the president with the unilateral authority to make them self-executing.

"It should not be surprising," Roberts added, "that our Constitution does not contemplate vesting such power in the Executive alone."

The decision upholds Texas prosecutors and judges who refused to reopen the cases of the Mexican nationals on death row there. By implication, it also blocks a challenge on behalf of several dozen Mexican natives who are serving death sentences in California.

The three dissenters, led by Justice Stephen G. Breyer, took the view that treaties are part of American law once they are ratified by the Senate.

At the White House, Press Secretary Dana Perino said the decision was a defeat, but on a narrow issue. "We're disappointed with the decision, but we're going to accept it, and we're going to be reviewing it in regards to the impacts that it may have," she said.

Since 2001, Bush has claimed the power to run the war on terrorism without interference from Congress or the courts. He and his White House lawyers have said his powers as commander in chief of the armed forces allow him to act unilaterally to protect the nation's security.

Citing this authority, he ordered the military to imprison "enemy combatants" without charges or hearings, and he told the National Security Agency to intercept international phone calls from suspected terrorists without seeking judicial warrants. He also has claimed the power to order harsh interrogations of suspected terrorists without oversight from Congress or the courts.

Civil libertarians have gone to court repeatedly to challenge Bush's actions, but they have won few clear victories.

Four years ago, the high court said war did not give the president a "blank check," but the justices stopped well short of forcing major changes at the military's prison at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. Another challenge to that prison is pending before the court.

Pepperdine law professor Douglas W. Kmiec said Tuesday's opinion in Medellin vs. Texas may be "an epitaph for an administration that has sought to deploy all sorts of means of embellishing presidential authority." Bush's order was "clearly an executive overreach," said Kmiec, a former Reagan administration lawyer, and he called Roberts' opinion "a strong reaffirmation of the role of Congress in treaty making."

But liberal advocates faulted the court for undercutting an international treaty.

"The most disturbing aspect of this case is that Chief Justice Roberts is signaling that the United States can simply ignore its obligations under international treaties," said Kathryn Kolbert, president of People for the American Way. "It's a ruling that will further erode our standing in the world."

Donald Donovan, a New York lawyer who represented Medellin, said the court should have stood behind Bush's effort to enforce U.S. legal commitments. "Having given its word, the United States should have kept its word," he said.

Mexico does not have the death penalty, and its officials said they could supply lawyers for those who were charged with capital crimes in the United States. When Mexico sued over the issue, the International Court of Justice in the Hague ruled in 2004 that the United States had violated the Vienna Convention. Its ruling named 51 Mexican nationals.

It was unclear how that ruling could be enforced. Bush, a former Texas governor, told Texas officials that they had to abide by the ruling of the International Court. He said he did so "pursuant to the authority vested in me as president by the Constitution and laws of the United States."

Texas prosecutors balked and decided to fight Bush in court. In Tuesday's opinion, Roberts concluded first that the Vienna Convention is not "binding federal law," since Congress had not passed a law to enforce it. And in such cases, the president had no authority to force state or local officials to comply with the treaty or the ruling of the International Court.

Justices Antonin Scalia, Anthony M. Kennedy, Clarence Thomas and Samuel A. Alito Jr. joined Roberts' opinion. And Justice John Paul Stevens concurred in the result, saying the treaty at issue did not have the force of law in this country.

Reply With Quote
 
     

Answers
 
 
Old Apr 1, 2008, 12:12 PM   #11  
BABRAM
Senior Member
BABRAM is offline
 
BABRAM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 532
BABRAM See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.BABRAM See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomder55
I suspect it has alot to do with his special relationship with the Mexican leadership . I wonder if he would show the same consideration to Iran ,Venezuela ,or the NORKS ?

Perhaps it's just locality, but I agree he appears to have invested much time with the Mexican government. Maybe this ties in with amnesty issues and the future business corridor trucking from south to north. This is one of those things where Bush blurs traditional party direction. I can see individual Republicans and Democrats being all over the place on this.
  Reply With Quote
 
     
 
 
Old Apr 1, 2008, 01:09 PM   #12  
speechlesstx
Ultra Member
speechlesstx is offline
 
speechlesstx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Amarillo, TX
Posts: 1,044
speechlesstx See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.speechlesstx See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.speechlesstx See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BABRAM
That headliner in the post was my take on the issue. Bush was exploring the possibilities. It's not his first time to have done such. The LA Times piece was presenting the case as ruled upon as seen consequense from various views.

I have to recognize the different views presented or I wouldn't have posted the PAW comment, but the headline, tag line and limited quote were meant to convey a negative image of Bush. I have no doubt about that Bobby.

Quote:
Not on this issue. That's why the courts we're involved and we had the final ruling.

Did you read the column in the Lone Star Times I linked to?
  Reply With Quote
 
     
 
 
Old Apr 1, 2008, 04:57 PM   #13  
BABRAM
Senior Member
BABRAM is offline
 
BABRAM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 532
BABRAM See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.BABRAM See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I have to recognize the different views presented or I wouldn't have posted the PAW comment, but the headline, tag line and limited quote were meant to convey a negative image of Bush. I have no doubt about that Bobby. Did you read the column in the Lone Star Times I linked to?

That was my headline on the post and it's factually correct, however Bush is not alone in a long line of past presidents to test the authority of their powers. This particular issue was determined in court though, otherwise had this previously been resolved the Bush admin legal team wouldn't had bothered. Of course everything he does is probably on my tax dollar anyway, but I'd like to think his adventures are somewhat thought out. Yes, I read the article. I agree with expressed comments "ugliness." Although that article is older and written before the recent court decision, ironically it confirms what I mentioned of the ruling, "I don't think they were necessarily against Bush, just how he went about it." Quite frankly I support the death sentence for acts of murder committed in our country, the USA, no matter the residence status or citizenship of the perpetrator, legal or illegal. I'm probably in the Independent column on this one, but I know that our country gives more rights to the accused via a fair trial than most; international treaties and jurisdiction notwithstanding.
  Reply With Quote
 
     
 
 
Old Apr 2, 2008, 03:52 AM   #14  
speechlesstx
Ultra Member
speechlesstx is offline
 
speechlesstx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Amarillo, TX
Posts: 1,044
speechlesstx See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.speechlesstx See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.speechlesstx See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BABRAM
That was my headline on the post and it's factually correct, however Bush is not alone in a long line of past presidents to test the authority of their powers.

Sorry, no I'm speaking of the LA Times article being meant to convey a negative image of Bush - even though they did present other views.

Quote:
I'm probably in the Independent column on this one, but I know that our country gives more rights to the accused via a fair trial than most; international treaties and jurisdiction notwithstanding.

If only more people would acknowledge they know this to be true.
  Reply With Quote
 
     
 
 
Old Apr 2, 2008, 04:21 AM   #15  
tomder55
Ultra Member
tomder55 is offline
 
tomder55's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: New York
Posts: 1,545
tomder55 See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.tomder55 See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.tomder55 See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.tomder55 See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.
Just wanted to add the specifics of the case.

Jose Medellin was part of a gang that gang raped and murdered Jennifer Ertman (14) and Elizabeth Pena (16). Each girl was repeatedly raped by Medillin, Raul Villarreal and fellow gang members, and then strangled to death. Villarreal later bragged that he stepped on the neck of Jennifer Ertman in an effort to strangle her because the “ wouldn’t die” after being strangled with a belt.He was taken in custody when he was 18 .He has been living in the US as an illegal since he was 6 years old. Which means that he was in the country during the times of the 1980s amnesty . It is rediculous to say that he should've been informed of his right to consult the Mexican counsulate because it wouldn’t have made any difference to his case, Witnesses testified that he “bragged about the assault and described using a shoelace to strangle one of the girls because he didn’t have a gun” .Besides he spoke English fine and neither asked for the consultation or gave the authorities any reason to think he was not an American. I'd be more than willing to bet his papers were properly forged.
  Reply With Quote
 
     
 
 
Old Apr 2, 2008, 06:18 AM   #16  
speechlesstx
Ultra Member
speechlesstx is offline
 
speechlesstx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Amarillo, TX
Posts: 1,044
speechlesstx See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.speechlesstx See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.speechlesstx See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.
From Texas' brief to to the Supreme Court:

Quote:
46. The Court finds that the applicant did not object pre-trial or during trial to any violation of the Vienna Convention on Consular Relations which grants a foreign national who has been arrested, imprisoned or taken into custody a right to contact his consulate and requires the arresting government authorities to inform the individual of this right “without delay.” Vienna Convention, art. 36(1)(b), 21 U.S.T. at 100-101; 595 U.N.T.S. at 292.

47. The Court finds that testimony during the applicant’s trial and the applicant’s statement reflect that the applicant was born in Mexico, but lived most of his life in the United States; that he spoke, read and wrote the English language; that he attended Houston public schools beginning with elementary school; that he initially did well in elementary school; that his family and friends lived in the United States; that his father had been gainfully employed since his arrival in the United States; that his mother was presently employed; and that the applicant had been employed in the United States while going to Houston schools (R. XXXV – 279-92) (R. XXX – 652, 670).

48. The Court finds that the applicant’s father testified that they had lived in the United States for fifteen years and that both he and the applicant’s mother had a “green card” (R. XXXV – 279-80, 288). App. 52

49. The Court finds that the applicant’s school records contain the notation “516396627” under social security number for the applicant.

50. The Court finds, based on the appellate record, that there was no testimony presented during the applicant’s trial that he was not a United States citizen; that the applicant told anyone during his detention that he was a Mexican national; that he requested assistance from the Mexican consulate; or, that he was prevented from requesting assistance from the Mexican consulate.

51. The Court finds that it is a reasonable inference that the applicant was familiar with the laws and procedures of the country and state in which he had lived almost his entire life and that the applicant was familiar with the criminal justice system based on his prior criminal history.

52. The Court finds that the applicant was informed of his Miranda rights prior to giving a statement admitting participation in the offense (R. XXX – 633-40) (R.XXXII – 942-5).

53. The Court finds that the Court of Criminal Appeals has held that a defendant does not have standing to advance a claim that his death sentence violated the United Nations Charter, stating that “ . . . treaties operate as contracts among nations. Therefore, it is the offended nation, not an individual, that must seek redress for a violation of sovereign interests.” Hinojosa v. State, No. 72,932 (Tex. Crim. App. Oct. 27, 1999).

I see no reason why the authorities had any reason to wonder if he were a Mexican national. To them he was just another serial offending local gangbanger.
  Reply With Quote
 
     
 
 
Old Apr 2, 2008, 07:36 AM   #17  
BABRAM
Senior Member
BABRAM is offline
 
BABRAM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 532
BABRAM See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.BABRAM See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Sorry, no I'm speaking of the LA Times article being meant to convey a negative image of Bush - even though they did present other views. If only more people would acknowledge they know this to be true.

That would be a contradiction to their motives, assuming the LA Times had one in this case. They had to hit upon the six judges that favored the ruling because that was the story. In actuality they could had re-counter pointed the three judges arguments, but instead gave credit as you admit, "they did present other views."

"But liberal advocates faulted the court for undercutting an international treaty.

"The most disturbing aspect of this case is that Chief Justice Roberts is signaling that the United States can simply ignore its obligations under international treaties," said Kathryn Kolbert, president of People for the American Way. "It's a ruling that will further erode our standing in the world."

Donald Donovan, a New York lawyer who represented Medellin, said the court should have stood behind Bush's effort to enforce U.S. legal commitments. "Having given its word, the United States should have kept its word," he said."



Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
If only more people would acknowledge they know this to be true.


My personal view, which I believe to have justification, still couldn't be carried out on a whim, if I were president. While the red tape of international treaties and our own government system collided, I can see the necessity of the court ruling and in actuality the ramification is that it gives us the road map to work things through proper channels.
  Reply With Quote
 
     
 
 
Old Apr 2, 2008, 07:56 AM   #18  
BABRAM
Senior Member
BABRAM is offline
 
BABRAM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 532
BABRAM See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.BABRAM See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
I see no reason why the authorities had any reason to wonder if he were a Mexican national. To them he was just another serial offending local gangbanger.
.

"50. The Court finds, based on the appellate record, that there was no testimony presented during the applicant’s trial that he was not a United States citizen; that the applicant told anyone during his detention that he was a Mexican national; that he requested assistance from the Mexican consulate; or, that he was prevented from requesting assistance from the Mexican consulate."

As for the above part of the briefing my guess is this happened because a lack of attention and failed research combined with assumptions by both the attorneys and court. Anyway before I got into gaming finance, about twenty years earlier I worked posting bills and assisting paralegals at a large Oil and Gas Law firm in OKC. While hardly any of our cases had anything remotely to do with this issue, sometimes the cases broke down to just setting a precedence for future cases. That being said, you win and lose some along the way.
  Reply With Quote
 
     
 
 
Old Apr 2, 2008, 08:52 AM   #19  
speechlesstx
Ultra Member
speechlesstx is offline
 
speechlesstx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Amarillo, TX
Posts: 1,044
speechlesstx See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.speechlesstx See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.speechlesstx See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BABRAM
As for the above part of the briefing my guess is this happened because a lack of attention and failed research combined with assumptions by both the attorneys and court.

Since I haven't been arrested lately I wouldn't know, is it standard procedure to determine the nationality of the arrested individual? Or would that be that evil profiling, lol?

Quote:
sometimes the cases broke down to just setting a precedence for future cases. That being said, you win and lose some along the way.

Very true.
  Reply With Quote
 
     
 
 
Old Apr 2, 2008, 09:37 AM   #20  
BABRAM
Senior Member
BABRAM is offline
 
BABRAM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Posts: 532
BABRAM See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.BABRAM See this member's comment history on his/her Profile page.
Quote:
Originally Posted by speechlesstx
Since I haven't been arrested lately I wouldn't know, is it standard procedure to determine the nationality of the arrested individual? Or would that be that evil profiling, lol?

That reminds me...there was a TV news commentary piece that Glenn Beck was going to bring up about a case in NYC where an illegal sues the police because they exposed him in addition to his criminal activity. At least that's what I think the piece was about, but I missed it. I left Beck's show during a commercial break, probably to help with the baby, and never finished hearing the details.
  Reply With Quote
 
     


Question Tools Search this Question
Search this Question:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

 
Similar Sponsors

Similar Questions
Question Asker Topic Answers Last Post
How do I get her to make more of an effort to hang out/ talk to me? atothec88 Relationships 4 Feb 13, 2008 07:16 AM
Feel like his not making an effort. perfectlyhappy Relationships 2 Jan 26, 2008 04:28 PM
Dubya Bush's felonies. magprob Other Law 8 May 10, 2007 05:39 PM
Boyfriend does not make an effort to meet me Mellinutmeg Relationships 2 Feb 28, 2007 10:23 AM




Copyright ©2003 - 2007, Ask Me Help Desk.
All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:53 PM.

Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC6 © 2006, Crawlability, Inc.