I have a Dell Dimension 8100 with v.A02 Bios. Latest Bios update is A09. I'd like to try flashing to the new version, but have heard horror stories about this killing a computer.

I've been searching for hours and can't find a way to backup the A02 Bios before the flash, and how to Restore it if the flash failed.

The A02 download doesn't seem to be available anywhere either.

I read that in some cases, the flash process allows you to make a backup, but I don't know if this old Dell download does that.

Can anyone help with this?

Thanks...

The bios files out there are becoming more and more exe files that can be problematic. The older floppy drive ones came in several parts one being the bios file and the other the flash utility that gets loaded at boot and finally you making the blank floppy formatted and with system files (although I always remove config.sys and autoexe.bat). Then you would copy the files to the floppy as well and set to boot to floppy first in the bios and run it. If the floppy version has a save feature you can save the old bios but if everything goes smoothly you won't need it. Power outages during the flash and newer exe file screwups are the most common form of ruining a PC, but I have flashed my bios with floppies hundereds of times with no problem. The floppy files (if available) will also contain a link with instructions to follow to the letter or the instruction may be in a zip file with the flash utility and bios together.

Thanks. The A09 update is a self extracting bootable file for a floppy.

I found the A02 (my current version) buried in the Dell site. It too has a version for a floppy, but says the diskette must 1st be a bootable diskette. I found that in "XP Format", there is a check box to make the diskette bootable during a format.

Do you know if this would be appropriate before loading the A02 Bios on this diskette as a backup to my A09 upgrade?

For your A02 bios Xp will allow you to create a system disk, and that's where I mentioned I always remove the config.sys and autoexe.bat files after I create it, then you can add your flash utility and the bios to the system disk. Those types do not auto run at boot and you have to call up the flash utility by name at the prompt after booting to the floppy (there may be instructions in the zip if that's how it came). The auto creator you downloaded for A09 may be that, it might be the type that automatically runs without calling the utility first. If there is room on the floppy for the a02 backup you can put it on there but that's not a true backup. A true backup will be created prior to the flash and will be put on the floppy if there is room, or you can put it on the hard drive somewhere easy to find. Name it very similar to the A09 but change it to A02. I would leave the downloaded a02 off the floppy until after you do the a09 flash. Then if your not given the opportunity to back up, you can add it yourself to the floppy created by A09 and have an autorun if that's what it is. Since a floppy is so small (1.44mb) it can be a limiting factor, and a backup is pretty much useless after a successful update. Why would you go back to A02 if A09 is better?

I'm not very familiar with the Bios, and have never flashed one before. To answer your question, I just thought it wouldn't hurt to make an A02 disk in case some weird thing happens with A09.

I actually started flashing to A09 last night, and all was going well until just before the file installation (in DOS), when I got the following warning: "The Boot Block Code is different. The Boot Block will be flashed if you continue."

I Googled this and called everyone I knew, and no one has ever heard of a Boot Block. I didn't know if this was just part of the normal flash update, or a problem. Since it came up as a "warning", I decided to abort the flash.

My friend told me that if the BIOS gets corrupted in some way, it may not boot off any drive, and I wouldn't even be able to restore to A02. His point: If it isn't broken...

Do you happen to know about this Boot Block warning I received?

You mentioned making a System Disk in XP. How is that done? And what is the difference between that and a bootable diskette make in the Format Window? The BIOS Download instructions say to make a bootable diskette and load the BIOS files to that.

Thanks...

PS: This is a bit confusing to me. I appreciate your patience.

Update:

I just Googled how to make a "System Disk" in XP. The instructions are exactly what I was talking about... using Disk Format to make Bootable. Is this what you were referring to?: (see steps below from article)

(I would still really like to know if you have info on that Boot Block Code warning.)

Thanks...

# Begin by placing a blank floppy disk into your floppy drive.
# Double click on the My Computer icon on your Desktop until it opens.
# Then gently click on the 3½ Floppy (A:) icon just enough until it becomes highlighted.
# Then click on the word File, which is contained in your top tool bar area.
# This will pull down a menu for you to now click on the word Format.
# Place a check mark in the box next to Create an MS-DOS startup disk at the bottom of the screen.
# Then click the Start button to begin creating your Startup Disk.
# Windows will display a warning that Formatting erase all data or your disk. Click OK to continue.
# Windows will then display a progress indicator bar denoting the status of your System Disk.
# When the status bar reaches 100% your System Startup Disk will be complete.

Bios flashing is no longer the dragon that it once was. Still it is not to be done with out warrant or if you will not get some real advantage why bother. The chance of bricking a machine is still there however flash utilities are much better now. With some devices there are even utilities to repair bad flashes though I have not seen one for a computer, be it that I seldom flash bios on computers they may be available.

Thank you Mr Meeks.

I have learned in the past few days, as you have indicated, that flashing is easier and safer than in the past. Unfortunately, my PC is still living in the past. The one that I was trying to flash is vintage 2001. There doesn't seem to be any fail safes. Just so you know, I was originally trying to flash it due to a continuing, but intermittent problem with my Boot sector, or MBR, or MFT (I really don't know) getting corrupted. Someone I know suggested the flash. I have since learned that the Bios doesn't write anything to the HDD, so it is unlikely that they are related.

I am very curious about the Boot Block Code warning. I have spent so much time on this, and then to just abandon the project without knowing why... well it's bugging me.

Update on my original problem of the continuing corrupted hard drive not booting to Windows. The latest theory is an MBR virus. Makes sense from what I have read. So I shall move forward and "kill" my drive and do a fresh install. Apparently formatting doesn't get to the MBR viruses. So it shall be a total nuke job.

Thanks...

Normally the boot block is not written to, but I suppose if you have the wrong A09 that the utility may see that the actual bios files are different from what the boot block requires so its offering to change it. You have to be careful when choosing a bios because many motherboards have several revisions. They may have the same model number for the board but there can be rev.1.0 rev.1.2 which are changes made to the board during manufacture to solve problems found out in the wild. As is often the case, rev 1.0 and rev 1.2 can have different bios structures or even different bios chip, so they will also have different bios downloads. You might be better off doing some question asking on the Dell forum site where the people are more familiar with the product.

Thank you App. That's a really good explanation and suggestion. I was actually able to understand it.

Can you just clarify for me, where and what is the Boot Block Code? And what is it's function?

Thank You...

OK a 10 year old hard drive would make me suspicious, if I had any could be disk related problem. A good disk utility like Spinrite will do about all that can be done to recover and mark bad sectors but all spinning drives will fail. Good luck

The first thing I did was replace the HDDs with brand new ones.

BIOS - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/mbsys/bios/compBoot-c.html

Thank you, this is very good.

I'm exhausted from this project. I did a chat session with Dell Tech Support, and she told me the A09 version I was planning to upgrade my BIOS to, is not compatible with XP. She didn't sound very knowledeable, but who knows. Then I went on the Dell Forum, and found a few people that said it works fine, but the overwhelming consensus is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it... especially the BIOS. This PC is so old, it doesn't seem to have a BIOS recovery feature. My version of the BIOS is ancient, A02, but it's working with XP. The only reason I even considered the BIOS upgrade was because of my boot sector corruption on the HDD that happens every 2-3 months. Most people don't think the BIOS could cause this. For now, I am moving forward with the theory of an MBR virus, and I know what to do about that.

Having an intermittent problem that only occurs every 3 months is a bear to troubleshoot.

Thanks again.

I found something interesting to throw into the mix. Which A09 bios file do you have? There are 2 out there. One uses a "boot" disk and the other is an upgrade from DOS.

See here for more info:

BIOS upgrade.

Ref:

The bios update is available in one of two different formats. The file
Called br55317.exe will create a bootable floppy disk after it is downloaded
To your computer and run. Once you have created the bios update floppy you
Boot with that floppy disk and follow prompts on the screen. The file
Called gx110a09.exe is a compressed version of the bios that expands into
Something that you can put on a floppy or cd and run after you boot the
Machine into dos (most likely from your own floppy disk). You can not
Flash the bios from within windows on this vintage machine

You are correct. I created a diskette based on what Dell refers to as the "Floppy" version. It creates a self extracting DOS bootable diskette with the A09 BIOS on it. Here are the 2 versions from Dell:

Non-Packaged
8100_A09.EXE
Description: This file format consists of a BIOS executable file. To use it, download the file and copy it to a DOS-bootable diskette. With the diskette in the floppy drive, reboot the system and run the program.

Floppy
B8100_09.exe
Description: This file contains a compressed (or zipped) set of files. Download the file to a folder on your hard drive, and then run (double-click) it to unzip the set of files. Follow the instructions to create a set of floppy diskettes, and then use the diskettes to complete the installation.

The main question has always been, is A09 compatible with XP? If you look at the compatibility list on their page, A09 only goes up to Win2000. This is why I was hesitant to flash it.

However, common sense suggests that it should work, since I now have A02 (7 versions earlier), and it is working fine with XP.

But again, if this has nothing to do with my continuing HDD boot sector corruption, there is really no reason to risk and irreversible flash.

My curiosity is killing me on this, however. I'd love to try it, but can't risk killing the mobo. It's frustrating though, not to be able to get an answer as to A09 working with XP.

At least I've learned something about the BIOS in all of this, so it's not a total loss.

I really need some solid help, and some sensible troubleshooting suggestions for the root cause of my intermittent HDD boot sector corruption (every 2-3 months). It's the only thing wrong with the PC. I've been given so much conflicting advice, I don't even know where to start.

Do you think I should re-post the question in a different sub-topic? I think I need to start over in asking for some help on this.

So far, it's been suggested that the causes that fit perfectly are: BIOS, MBR virus, bad RAM, bad power supply, bad mobo capacitors, corroded cable connectors, and a few others. My favorite suggestion was to buy a new computer. That's a great answer because it applies to every conceivable problem anyone could ever ask about.

Thanks for hanging in there with me on this CD3.

PS: now my router is acting up. Just what I needed. Weird because it (intermittently of course) is preventing me from connecting to only one IP address. If I bypass the router, I can connect. I can't get my head around this. How can a router selectively block a single IP address on it's own? Well that's another problem for another day.

Cheers...

The definitive answer is... if A02 works with what you have then A09 will also work. Your trying too hard to understand everything without basics.

Another thing is that if your getting something intermitent How can you be sure now that you have a new hard drive?

You say its every 3 months. Have you considered that's also about the cycle of the weather? So it could be from something outside of the computer causing it. Have you actually checked your input voltage? The one that comes from the wall?

At this point going at it slow is a good thing. But realize that sometimes to grow you have to keep moving forward. What is so special about this computer that makes it unrecoverable should something happen?

I haven't mastered the ability to do Quotes in this forum, so it's cut and paste to respond:

The definitive answer is... if A02 works with what you have then A09 will also work.
I assumed the same, until I called Dell tech support, and they said A09 in not compatible with XP. So what am I to believe? And most people are suggesting not to flash a BIOS unless absolutely necessary.

Another thing is that if your getting something intermittent How can you be sure now that you have a new hard drive? I put in the "new" HDD about 2 years ago. The original was 8 years old at the time, and getting pretty noisy. This intermittent boot sector corruption has been going on since I bought the computer used about that time. It was only happening every 6-8 months at first, so I didn't see a trend until more recently. Now it's happening every 2-3 months. If it is a bad HDD or an MBR virus, replacing the drive and doing a fresh install should take care of it. I just don't like to blindly start swapping out parts without troubleshooting. But I don't know what else to test.

You say its every 3 months. Have you considered that's also about the cycle of the weather? So it could be from something outside of the computer causing it. Have you actually checked your input voltage? The one that comes from the wall? I live in San Diego. We only have one season. It's always 72 degrees here. I have checked the wall voltage and it's 117vac. As far as surges go, I have a surge protector on the system.

At this point going at it slow is a good thing. But realize that sometimes to grow you have to keep moving forward. I agree. I've learned a lot. Much thanks to your continued support CD3. I am all in favor of slow and steady, and never changing more than one thing at a time. As far as going slow, I've been trying to figure this out for 2 years. I think that qualifies as taking my time.

What is so special about this computer that makes it unrecoverable should something happen? I was specifically referring to corrupting the BIOS when I said unrecoverable. From what I have read, if you mess up the BIOS, you may not be able to get the PC to boot from any drive. It is my understanding that all you can do at that point is replace the BIOS chip. So in my opinion, the risk outweighs the benefit on a 10 year old PC. The only reason I might consider taking the risk, is if some expert told me that my symptoms fit a BIOS problem perfectly, and I've been told just the opposite.

The 2 things that make the most sense to me are bad RAM, which I have ruled out, and an MBR virus. I never even heard of an MBR virus until 2 weeks ago. After researching it in some reputable articles, not just opinion, MBR viruses are more common than people realize. And many anti-virus programs won't pick them up on a scan. But tell me if this doesn't make sense. 2 years ago, I bought this used from a guy that refubs PCs in his garage. All he did was format the HDD and reload Windows XP. Who knows what was on that drive before? I loaded everything else. The drive was perfectly clean (I thought). I made a clone of the clean - never been used - HDD and kept it as a "master" so I wouldn't have to load everything manually in the future if the drive got bogged with junk, crashed, or died. So if it is an MBR virus, and it gradually does enough damage to corrupt the HDD so it no longer boots, I would just drag out the "master", re-clone the corrupted HDD, and I'm up and running. But if the master contains the mbr virus, I am just resetting my HDD back in time, if you will, to when I first loaded everything. The fact that the corruption is so consistent, and gradually happening more often, seems to fit this scenario, at least in my head. Obviously, I am no expert, and could be totally off in left field here. These ideas didn't come from me. They were suggestions from people I know that repair PCs for a living. I just am following the suggestions that make the most sense to me first. When it was 1st suggested to flash the BIOS, it sounded so easy. I didn't know about the risks, nor did I know that Dell does not believe this updated BIOS to be compatible with XP. And when I got the Boot Block warning in the middle of the flash, that was enough for me. You may be correct about A09 working if A02 does. Intuitively, it makes perfect sense. But I have been told recently that the BIOS could not cause this HDD corruption, so I really don't see the point in taking an unnecessary chance. I may never fix this thing, and that would not be the end of the world. But I would like to try to find the problem. As you have pointed out, it's how we learn, and I'm all for that.

CD3, I hope that my explanation did not in any way sound curt. There is so much behind everything, I am just trying to explain the background that lead to where I am today, and the questions I am asking. Believe it or not, I have a degree in electronics engineering (although I'm sure you'd never know it based on my questions), so I tend to approach things analytically. When it comes to electronics, I'm actually very good at troubleshooting. But computer repair came to me later in life, and it's an entirely new species to me. They seem to almost be living beings at times. I've really enjoyed all that I have learned, and intend to keep going. So... that's pretty much the whole story.

PS: your seasonal suggestion was very clever. Now that's thinking outside the box. If I lived in Minnesota, I'd be all over that one.

Thanks again... M

Have you tried a good program like Avast? Have you run a scan on the disk to recover any bad sectors? There is a lot of things going on but in reality they follow a straight line. A leads to B leads to C etc.

The power supply being off from its nominal voltage can make things goofy. If your disk slows down your not likely to notice it until your voltage returns to normal. Then everything that had been written can not be read. Imagne playing a record at the proper speed. It sounds nice. But slow it down or speed it up and its whacked. Your disk drive is actually the same in that the "heads" inside put down magnetic information on the disk and then have to read/write from it at a later time.

If you want to check out Avast you can get the free version here.

www.avast.com

The primary scan is a scan on boot for exactly what your talking about. What your actually describing would be called a worm virus (works in the background) as if an earthworm - you don't see them but you know they are there.

Most format apps do not remove the MBR, so Viruses use it to protect themselves and come back on you (they can get into memory too). The older Win98 emergency or install floppies had a format that you could set switches, and using the switch /u meant to format unconditionally so the MBR was removed and then re-written later when you format from fat32 (win98) to ntfs or before installation of a clean install.
If its been bad from the beginning and seems to be getting worse, I would suspect a possible chipset problem on the mobo. If the drive controller chipset is damaged (over heated or static, what ever) it could cause your intermittent issues. Since a new drive did the same thing you can bet its not the drive or even your old one for that matter. Power supply as mentioned is also possible.
You always wanted to build your own Machine anyway right? If you have some money, now is as good a time as any. You have all the help you'll need from here and its time to get your feet wet. When I was poor (yesterday) I had a plan to buy the parts a little at a time starting with parts that do not change from month to month (case, power supply, opticals, floppy drive if you want it) then after deciding which way you want to go (intel or amd) pick a motherboard that just came out but don't buy it yet, get memory and a cpu for it for your next purchases. At this point your stuck with the memory slot and cpu slot from that purchase but you can change your motherboard choice if something new comes out as long as the memory and cpu you bought are compatible. This will allow you to buy parts a little at a time and since you put off the motherboard until last you get to choose from the latest expensive stuff or a little older price dropped models and you also get the benefit of a longer testing and review of the board. Just as intel screwed up with the sandybridge, motherboards often come out in revisions to fix issues found by consumers. So if the board you picked ends up in revision 2.0 you can be pretty sure all the bugs are out.