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My husband and I have had similar discussions when discussing the subject of religion. It makes their god out to be something to be feared that if you piss HIM off, you had better watch out. What? Does that make me more compassionate then the christian god being that no matter what my children did wrong I would never want to see something so horrible happen to them? I love my children unconditionally. Even if they were to come out as homosexuals, or wose - a jock ! I'd still love and accept my child. Even if my child disowned me, and said horrible things to me and hurt my feelings - that is MY child. I would never cast my child into a horrible place of fire to burn for all eternity. I love my child too much to make/watch them suffer. ...So since "God" obviously does not mind seeing such horrible things done or doing such things to "His" children, would that make the parent full of unconditional love more compassionate, loving, and understanding then "God"? And if so, how does this make sense? How can you then go and say "God is good"...Things like this just do not make sense to me. And I really do want to at least UNDERSTAND how one accepts this as "good" and all powerful, all loving and kind, because flooding the earth was not kind to most of "Gods children" either.
Pixiemama,
I will do a poor job..but I will attempt to try to explain a little...
God is Holy. We try to understand Him with our finite minds and we cannot possibly do it...(or as my friend Jill likes to say....our brians can't wrap around that concept). We are NOT HOLY. HE IS HOLY. It is IMPOSSIBLE for GOD to tolerate even one tiny, winy, eeny, beeny sin. Because WE being sinners can overlook it, we think GOD CAN TOO. It isn't THAT bad we say...it was NO BIG deal...it was HARMLESS. Well it is like POISON to God. If you don't get THAT....you will never have any real understanding of GOD. ok?
HE is also Soverign....HE REIGNS SUPREME. GOD can and will do what He pleases. Now, this is what ticks us humans off the most. WE don't like it. Our nature naturally fights against HIS soveriegnty. It irks us that HE can do what he pleases.
God is also LOVE. A perfect love that we cannot even comprehend. It goes way far above our understanding. I won't even try to explain it because I will fail miserably. He loves and HE loves every human being with that perfect love. It is unconditional...He loves you even if you HATE HIM...doesn't matter...HE just loves you! HE CAN'T HELP IT....it is HIS character...
ok...so you Have GOD...HOLY, SOVEREIGN, LOVE. He can't go against HIS own Character..in other words..HE CAN'T just over look sin just because HE is LOVE...so when Adam sinned ... He couldn't say..."adam..i love you so much...I'm not gonna notice...it was no biggy anyway..it was just one little piece of fruit"! He couldn't.. but what He did almost immediately is remedy the problem by promising JESUS in Genesis 3:15. He has the answer for man because He LOVES US...HE is sending HIS son...He will redeem mankind. Otherwise, HE can't have anything to do with US...remember he is HOLY. HE CAN'T. He cannot go against HIS OWN CHARACTER.
People want to say ...why does a LOVING GOD do this or allow that??? Well, when mankind sinned it set in motion a lot of horrible things...death being the final blow. But GOD LOVES us...HE sent HIS SON to redeem us. Jesus paid our debt in full so that when God looks at US..HE can say...I SEE NO SIN. But that is the ONLY WAY...you can't earn it..you can't work really hard at being good cuz...remember 1 tiny sin is all it takes to NOT be with GOD. He is soveriegn...HE gets to choose HOW to redeem us...He gets to say what will make us perfect before HIM..we don't.
How do I make sense of God...? I understand His character and I understand He cannot just overlook His HOLINESS because HE IS LOVE and I remember he is SOVEREIGN whether i like it or not.
I said I was incarcerated. You said it failed. Not the same thing. Not even close. One's a fact. One's a judgment. Big difference. You insulted me, and now you deny it.
Boy oh, boy - throwing stones and then lying about it. Not only do I KNOW more about Christianity than you, I am a BETTER Christian than you - and I'm an athiest.
excon
Excon,
To save you the trouble of going back to re-read my original post, here it is:
Excon,
If you are an ex-con, I'm sorry you didn't benefit from your incarceration. But at least you are being honest about looking for trouble. On this forum, we Christians will tell you the truth from the Word of God. I understand that you do not believe vin God, but bI'm glad that does not change the fact that He reigns Supreme, the Ruler of the universe
If you can get from the above that I was throwing stones by referencing what your profile says, and then saying the incarcerations didn't work if you're still "looking for trouble where you can find it", then don't post what you don't want people to refer to. They were your words, not mine. I don't lie about anything. I made no judgement. As a self-professed athiest,(if you truly are one) you will find out that there is a True and Living God. That will be your choice. I only hope and pray that it's not too late when you find out. Trust Jesus. He will be the best Friend you'll ever have.
This is only my opinion. Im very open minded so it is easy for me to reply to this subject.
IMO Where you go after death is depending on what you beleive in. Some beleive in the Biblical theory , heaven or hell. Others beleive from a scientififc point of view.
Some people think when you die, you die. nothing more. its over.
and some people read the bible to reassure themselves that there could possibly be something else out there after death.
I've heard so many theory's and opinions in this subject that in the end, it all really matters what YOU beleive in. some one who is from egypt, and beleive in reincarnation, can not tell a christian or catholic where they will go after death, as they all have different beleifs. Yet both of them disagree about eachotehrs views on it, even though they think their own standpoint is the best. There really is no right or wrong answer. It all depends on how you feel, and what YOU yourself beleive in. I myself am a catholic, so I can not vouche for scientific methods,though science does make sense in way. I just beleive that God created out cells, mucles, bones, organs and other bodily functions. Sure the heart keeps us alive, but its our spirit and soul that keeps us going, the soul and spirit that god has given us. =] sorry if i have offended any one, as this is a VERY touchy subject.
Religious conversations are as touchy as abortion/no abortion conversations, every one will have a different beleif or view, though some will sound much like some one elses, and some one elses view or beleif may sound completely different from others. Like said above, it all depends on what you feel is right in your heart. =]
To save you the trouble of going back to re-read my original post, here it is:
Excon,
If you are an ex-con, I'm sorry you didn't benefit from your incarceration. But at least you are being honest about looking for trouble. On this forum, we Christians will tell you the truth from the Word of God. I understand that you do not believe vin God, but bI'm glad that does not change the fact that He reigns Supreme, the Ruler of the universe
If you can get from the above that I was throwing stones by referencing what your profile says, and then saying the incarcerations didn't work if you're still "looking for trouble where you can find it", then don't post what you don't want people to refer to. They were your words, not mine. I don't lie about anything. I made no judgement. As a self-professed athiest,(if you truly are one) you will find out that there is a True and Living God. That will be your choice. I only hope and pray that it's not too late when you find out. Trust Jesus. He will be the best Friend you'll ever have.
Excon,
I rest my case. Your speech betrays you. You are in for a tough time in this world with your attitude. I will be praying for you, friend.
Speedball,
You speak about what I do and do not know. There you go again......reading things into my posts that aren't there. Boy, you must be one miserable person!! Since what you've been doing is obviously not working for you, why not try Jesus. He will save you, forgive you for assisting murderers, and put joy in your life.
Jillianleab,
I'm confident that there are MANY, MANY born again Christians in jail. I used to be a part of a prison ministry, and know of many conversions, but this is not the case with EXCON, because his testimony is that he's an atheist. I think we can all agree that it is impossible for a professing atheist to be saved, which is the only way a person can become a Christian.
All people, regardless of their background, can be saved, but only after they first believe the Bible and God.
This seems to be offensive to non believers, but I make no apologies for the Word of God. Here's what the Bible says:
(Rom 10:9) That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. (Rom 10:10) For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. (Rom 10:11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. (Rom 10:12) For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
I did not author this, I'm only giving you chapter and verse. If you don't like what it says, take it up with the Author. I have the responsibility to herald the message of salvation to whomsoever I come in contact with. When I have done this, I am done, unless there are questions that arise from the heralding of the Bible, which is what has happened here. In all reality, I would like to see all of mankind enjoying life to it's fullest by submitting themselves to God. But, I will not try to force my beliefs on anyone. I will only state what the Bible says....That's what I believe. When Christians do state their beliefs, they are sometimes labeled a "Bible thumpers" or Bible pushers", as has happened to me on this very forum. That doesn't change the facts of my beliefs, nor shall it ever deter me from telling the Truth. The very best to all of you. Poppa
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Poppa you are the perfect example of what most non Christians consider to be wrong with religion. The harder you try to be the best Christian you can, the worse you become and in the process you bring down many good Christians with you.
People like you is what makes people like me be glad i dont go to Church.
Poppa you are the perfect example of what most non Christians consider to be wrong with religion. The harder you try to be the best Christian you can, the worse you become and in the process you bring down many good Christians with you.
People like you is what makes people like me be glad i dont go to Church.
Ok, I get that Poppa sounds like he is coming on too strong and I can see why that is making people irritated.
But in HIS defense...it is HARD to be a Christian here. I can't win either. If I ask a question...it is a Ad Hominem attack, if I use my humor and try to tease someone...i'm creepy, If I get ticked off...I am passive aggressive, if I speak my mind, I am intolerant. If I laugh at a joke...I've hit a new low even for me. I can't win. All i ever tried to do is get people to discuss Christianity WITHOUT getting in their face and screaming you are going to hell...and I STILL make people glad they aren't Christians too...so...whatever.
It is not hard to be a Christian here. There are plenty Christians here that get along just fine AND have the respect of the non-Christians.
Most that have a hard time are not here to "discuss" but rather to "preach". That is where the conflict comes in.
Im sure most think its blasphemous to even toy with an idea that is not set in stone in the Bible... but that is what simple discussion is all about. Allow yourself to look beyond what has been shoved down your throats for your entire lives and ask yourself "why?" Try to answer something without quoting the Bible. There are infinite real world explanations for God and life.
It is futile to attempt to prove a belief to someone by using evidence that is only believed by those that already believe.
! I'd still love and accept my child. Even if my child disowned me, and said horrible things to me and hurt my feelings - that is MY child. I would never cast my child into a horrible place of fire to burn for all eternity. I love my child too much to make/watch them suffer. ...So since "God" obviously does not mind seeing such horrible things done or doing such things to "His" children, would that make the parent full of unconditional love more compassionate, loving, and understanding then "God"? And if so, how does this make sense? How can you then go and say "God is good"...Things like this just do not make sense to me. And I really do want to at least UNDERSTAND how one accepts this as "good" and all powerful, all loving and kind, because flooding the earth was not kind to most of "Gods children" either.
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