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A friend of mine is afraid she can be convicted and sentenced to hell for her thoughts.
She's a very devout Christian. Super nice person. She goes to church every Sunday and sometimes even in the middle of the week. She also prays to God every morning and night.
The other day, she mentioned something about going to hell. I laughed, because she's the most loyal Christian I know. But she wasn't kidding. She told me she has impure thoughts. She's married, but thinks about relationships with other men. She sometimes wishes bad things on people. Sometimes she's jealous of her sister and wishes something bad would happen to her. Nothing real bad, but like lose her job or something. She would secretly enjoy that. Ditto for some of her coworkers.
My friend also claims she has a form of mental Tourette's syndrome, where she'll just impulsively think something like, "I hate God". She doesn't know why this happens, she doesn't hate God, but she can't stop herself from thinking that and much worse, although she wouldn't tell me what worse things she thought.
Of course, anyone who knows me knows I don't believe in any of this. But she seems genuinely distraught over this and I told her I knew of an online forum where people seem to be knowledgeable about Christianity and sincere about helping people. So I promised I would ask this question for her...
Can you be convicted of thought crimes? My own answer would be most certainly not, but what do I know? It would surpass all the things I already think are barbaric about the bible. It seems appalling to think that your innermost thoughts are under supreme surveillance 24/7. What a way to have to live!
So I'm guessing/hoping you'll say she's ok. Again, she's one of the nicest sweetest people I know. She has to be for me to be posting a question on here for her. Even though I don't believe in any of this, I hate to see her so upset and worried about this. I'll print out some of your answers and show them to her. Thanks.
Tell her to read the Bible because it says God forgives when you ask him to.
Going to church and all is good but that does not get you to heaven.
She needs to learn to not beat herself up because God isn't as harsh on her as she is on herself.
God wants you to love him with a pure love. Being obsessed that you are not good enough is not good at all.
Tell her to read the Bible because it says God forgives when you ask him to.
Going to church and all is good but that does not get you to heaven.
She needs to learn to not beat herself up because God isn't as harsh on her as she is on herself.
God wants you to love him with a pure love. Being obsessed that you are not good enough is not good at all.
Thanks Nohelp. Would you know of any particular passage that might comfort her? Anywhere where it specifically says God forgives you when you ask Him to? I'm sure she must read the bible, but maybe she's not reading the right parts. But I don't know that. Maybe she doesn't read the bible much.
This is a very sad example of how people can be seriously damaged mentally by certain teachings of religion.
The poor girl has not learned a socially acceptable way to express anger and sexual passion because her religion has probably taught her that anger and sex is not acceptable for a "good girl", so she has repressed to the point where she is literally going mad.
There are ways to express anger *when it happens* so that it doesn't fester under the surface causing all kinds of damage. All people have to have a backbone....so they can say "You really make me mad" when someone angers them!
Now.... people cannot control what they think.....thoughts come and go, float in and out of the conscious mind....what one needs to know is *not* to hang onto thoughts and go about one's business.
This girl must go to a good psychiatrist/therapist immediately. She is confused and self-destructive, and she needs help reversing the road she is heading down.
Maybe this will help your friend. It's the Reformer Martin Luther's explanation of his phrase, in Christ we are "simul iustus et peccator"--in Christ we are at the same time saint and sinner. This is from Luther's Preface to his Lectures on Romans (notice what a tangled web we weave for ourselves....):
"Since the saints are always conscious of their sin, and seek righteousness from God in accordance with his mercy, they are always reckoned as righteous by God (semper quoque iusti a deo reputantur). Thus in their own eyes, and as a matter of fact, they are unrighteous. But God reckons them as righteous on account of their confession of their sin. In fact, they are sinners; however, they are righteous by the reckoning of a merciful God (Re vera peccatores, sed reputatione miserentis Dei iusti). Without knowing it, they are righteous; knowing it, they are unrighteous. They are sinners in fact, but righteous in hope (peccatores in re, iusti autem in spe)....
It is like the case of a man who is ill, who trusts the doctor who promises him a certain recovery and in the meantime obeys the doctor’s instructions, abstaining from what has been forbidden to him, in the hope of the promised recovery (in spe promissae sanitatis), so that he does not do anything to hinder this promised recovery…Now this man who is ill, is he healthy? The fact is that he is a man who is both ill and healthy at the same time (immo aegrotus simul et sanus). As a matter of fact, he is ill; but he is healthy on account of the certain promise of the doctor, who he trusts and who reckons him as healthy already, because he is sure that he will cure him. Indeed he has already begun to cure him, and no longer regards him as having a terminal illness. In the same way, our Samaritan, Christ, has brought this ill man to the inn to be cared for, and has begun to cure him, having promised him the most certain cure leading to eternal life.
Now is this man perfectly righteous? No. But he is at one and the same time a sinner and a righteous person (simul iustus et peccator). He is a sinner in fact, but a righteous person by the sure reckoning and promise of God that he will continue to deliver him from sin until he has completely cured him. And so he is totally healthy in hope, but a sinner in fact (sanus perfecte est in spe, in re autem peccator). He has the beginning of righteousness, and so always continues more and more to seek it, while realizing that he is always unrighteous.
Maybe this will help your friend. It's the Reformer Martin Luther's explanation of his phrase, in Christ we are "simul iustus et peccator"--in Christ we are at the same time saint and sinner. This is from Luther's Preface to his Lectures on Romans (notice what a tangled web we weave for ourselves....):
"Since the saints are always conscious of their sin, and seek righteousness from God in accordance with his mercy, they are always reckoned as righteous by God (semper quoque iusti a deo reputantur). Thus in their own eyes, and as a matter of fact, they are unrighteous. But God reckons them as righteous on account of their confession of their sin. In fact, they are sinners; however, they are righteous by the reckoning of a merciful God (Re vera peccatores, sed reputatione miserentis Dei iusti). Without knowing it, they are righteous; knowing it, they are unrighteous. They are sinners in fact, but righteous in hope (peccatores in re, iusti autem in spe)....
It is like the case of a man who is ill, who trusts the doctor who promises him a certain recovery and in the meantime obeys the doctor’s instructions, abstaining from what has been forbidden to him, in the hope of the promised recovery (in spe promissae sanitatis), so that he does not do anything to hinder this promised recovery…Now this man who is ill, is he healthy? The fact is that he is a man who is both ill and healthy at the same time (immo aegrotus simul et sanus). As a matter of fact, he is ill; but he is healthy on account of the certain promise of the doctor, who he trusts and who reckons him as healthy already, because he is sure that he will cure him. Indeed he has already begun to cure him, and no longer regards him as having a terminal illness. In the same way, our Samaritan, Christ, has brought this ill man to the inn to be cared for, and has begun to cure him, having promised him the most certain cure leading to eternal life.
Now is this man perfectly righteous? No. But he is at one and the same time a sinner and a righteous person (simul iustus et peccator). He is a sinner in fact, but a righteous person by the sure reckoning and promise of God that he will continue to deliver him from sin until he has completely cured him. And so he is totally healthy in hope, but a sinner in fact (sanus perfecte est in spe, in re autem peccator). He has the beginning of righteousness, and so always continues more and more to seek it, while realizing that he is always unrighteous.
I don't buy it because of what I perceive to be glaring inconsistencies in logic, but I think my friend will find great comfort in this. She does go to confession every week and hopefully will identify with this. So far, this is the post I think will help her the most. Thanks!
lobrobster writes: "Can you be convicted of thought crimes? My own answer would be most certainly not, but what do I know? It would surpass all the things I already think are barbaric about the bible. It seems appalling to think that your innermost thoughts are under supreme surveillance 24/7. What a way to have to live!"
I don't see the question as being whether one can be convicted of thought crimes. There is an old saying, that misery loves company. Your friend trusts you with her innermost thoughts and is apparently ashamed or surprised by them. I believe that is why Christians recognize and accept the blessing of confession: "Confession is the treatment God prescribes when we reject his place in our life, or when we violate his instructions for behaviors or attitudes in living." Check: Confession, a key to Christian growth And, : the role of confession of sin - Google Search
"As far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us."
Psalm 103:12
"Come now and let us reason together," says the Lord,
"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow."
Isaiah 1:18
"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
1 John 1:9
"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away, behold, all things have become new."
2 Corinthians 5:17
"Their sins and lawless acts I will remember no more."
Hebrews 10:17
"The Lord our God is merciful and forgiving, even though we have rebelled against him."
Daniel 9:9
"For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves, in whom we have redemption, the forgiveness of sins."
Colossians 1:13-14
"There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus ..."
Romans 8:1
Jesus died to pay the penalty for all of our sins, and once they are forgiven, they are all forgiven (Colossians 1:14; Acts 10:43). However, when we stumble, we are called to confess our sins - "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). Yes, Christians do sin (1 John 1:8) - but the Christian life is not to be identified by a life of sin. Believers are a new creation (2 Corinthians 5:17). We have the Holy Spirit in us producing good fruit (Galatians 5:22-23). A Christian life should be a changed life. A person who claims to be a believer yet continually lives a life that says otherwise should question the genuineness of his faith. Christians are forgiven no matter how many times they sin, but at the same time, Christians should live a progressively more holy life as they grow closer to Christ.
Christians continue to sin after they are saved - we will not be free from sin until we die or Jesus comes back. However, becoming a Christian results in a changed life (2 Corinthians 5:17). A person will go from producing the acts of the flesh (Galatians 5:19-21) to producing the fruit of the Spirit (Galatians 5:22-23). This change does not happen instantly, but it does happen over time. Paul tells us, "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God" (1 Corinthians 6:11).
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