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I will have to respectfully disagree then. The day mankind manages to attain a world without the problems that motivate us like hunger, political strife, etc, then that is the day we stop improving. It is human nature to "overcome", but look at your own lives today...is there ever a desire of any kind to improve your life in the areas you're quite content with?
Anyway, acknowledging the "truth" that there's no heaven/hell (?) would pretty much be the last straw on earth if that became universally believed. Without something to feel beholden to greater than ourselves, man is NOT a natural peacemaker.
Agreed, some dummies in history use religion as a basis for evil actions, but eliminating the concepts of God and right/wrong goes down the drain with it. We will always need someone greater than ourselves to motivate us be our best.
No countries...no nationalism, patriotism, oh the loss there.
You know...I actually agree with your first paragraph. Man learns from mistakes. If we lived in a world of peace, there is no way to make mistakes because a mistake is labeled as wrong. Wow. It's amazing how many different views can come from a simple song. I was all for its a great song and wouldn't that be amazing but if you really think about it, world peace would stop all growth. Not to mention all the lawyers that would be out of work. ha ha. All in all it is still a good song.
As far as your second paragraph:
First off, I am an athiest, so I have the hardest time understanding why christians need the reassurance that there is something greater out there. I am one of those people that believe, when you die you rot in the ground and that's it. No spirit, no heaven/hell, nothing. I would love to believe in something like heaven but I can't do it. I guess I am too much of a realist and can not see something like a beautiful perfect place where everyone is always happy and nothing bad ever happens.
Also, why do you need the concept of a God to have morals? People don't need a higher power to motivate them to strive to be perfect. Doing right and wrong is common sense. Its human nature.
The day mankind manages to attain a world without the problems that motivate us like hunger, political strife, etc, then that is the day we stop improving.
I must have stayed up too late last night because I don't follow the logic of saying that we need to have problems in the world so that we can improve... so imagining a world where all of the problems have been solved is wrong?
Does that mean we should just quit working to solve them because if we get them all solved we will have done something bad???
The day mankind manages to attain a world without the problems that motivate us like hunger, political strife, etc, then that is the day we stop improving.
I must have stayed up too late last night because I don't follow the logic of saying that we need to have problems in the world so that we can improve... so imagining a world where all of the problems have been solved is wrong?
Does that mean we should just quit working to solve them because if we get them all solved we will have done something bad???
In that case, why try? Seems rediculous.
If no mistakes were made and no problems existed, then how would people learn knew things? Mistakes, which cause problems, have to be made before something new and better can be created. Trial and error is what makes the world go round.
Oneguy, you're question at the end assumes a conclusion I'm not even remotely suggesting. That's your conclusion. Personally, I dismiss any real belief that religion/nationality/social need will ever go away. It's part of civilization. I'm saying that man improves as a result of dealing with his disagreements. We also mess up through them, too, which is your side and the side of the song.
This is a mental exercise, only.
Margarita, atheism aside, the reasons people (not just Christians) need a sense something greater is because without SOME basis of accountability built into people's thought process, they can rationalize ANYTHING. And they do. If you don't do this, this does put you in the minority. The forum alone is full of people with problems brought on by no sense of consequence beyond what they want and feel.
So, I can't find a basis to agree with your position thet "People don't need a higher power to motivate them to strive to be perfect. Doing right and wrong is common sense. Its human nature." Looking around I have to conclude that doing wrong is common nature, in that when the chips are down, self-preservation will rule.
Man strives to be more than his animal nature dictates, and that is awesome. Most simply can't do it by instinct, which is where civilization comes back in. Laws, morals, rules, authority, listening to parents or God, these concepts exist only in mankind. They are backstops that help us to resist our natures and do "actual" right, at least in terms of doing what is best for all, not just self.
It's a debate, I know. Just know that I think on the end we have the same goals. I'm just of the belief they are more likely attained with some sense of accountability outside of ourselves, and you believe it can come from our own inner moral center. In that, only time will prove out.
First off, I am an athiest, so I have the hardest time understanding why christians need the reassurance that there is something greater out there. I am one of those people that believe, when you die you rot in the ground and that's it. No spirit, no heaven/hell, nothing. I would love to believe in something like heaven but I can't do it. I guess I am too much of a realist and can not see something like a beautiful perfect place where everyone is always happy and nothing bad ever happens.
Also, why do you need the concept of a God to have morals? People don't need a higher power to motivate them to strive to be perfect. Doing right and wrong is common sense. Its human nature.
How many abused children are there in this world? How many missing? How many murdered? God didn't do this to these innocent children. Human nature did. God gives everyone a mind and lots of people can turn an ordinary mind into a very depraved mind. God didn't force them to look at and read about evil all day, but some people sure do it. And when their own depraved minds lead them to do the horrible things that they do to innocent children, then they will have to pay for their evils, if not in this world then in hell.
We have a choice of heaven or hell, plain and simple.
You're are right. People don't need a higher power to motivate them. They need the right higher power to motivate them. Jesus Christ. I remember, not too long ago, a loving group of people followed a higher power that they believed would lead them to perfection. Jim Jones.
I'm sorry that people don't want there to be a heaven, but I can understand it, because if they believed in heaven they would have to believe in hell.
I could never 'imagine'there was no heaven or hell. I know there is, and just choosing to say there isn't--won't change a thing.
Many people do not have to be threatened with eternal damnation to be kind to each other. It is our design to change, to grow. Disbelief in hell or in heaven will not stop the design's progress. Only those truly afraid, needing to be told what is right and wrong, yours and mine, up and down, would be frightened of the concepts presented in the lyrics.
Well, lets break it down. The song talks about imagining having world peace and harmony, no hunger, no wars in the name of "religion" (one of your bigger war causes) and living in "the now". How can this be bad? My God would imagine this would be good too.
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Christians are not to imagine there is no Heaven. Heaven is our final destination. Heaven is an essential part of Christianity. In my opinion, it would not be appropriate to sing this song in church. Church music should be solid in doctrine and a prayerful reflection. This song is not that.
Imagine there's no Heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today
Christians are not to imagine there is no Heaven. Heaven is our final destination. Heaven is an essential part of Christianity. In my opinion, it would not be appropriate to sing this song in church. Church music should be solid in doctrine and a prayerful reflection. This song is not that.
That is the problem with Christianity. It is so exclusive. Believe what I believe or you are out and hell bound. There is no room for independent thinking. That is what I was referring to when I said "MY God," the Holy Spirit that I believe is all powerful, all knowing, all loving, and all that is good. I guess you could say that this song IS un-appropriate for a Christian Church since the Christian belief is one of a very narrow view. It equates their belief with fact for everyone.. I was raised as a Christian, have always been identified as a Christian but I really dislike any religious group to dictate my heart and tell me what I believe.
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