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I would like to ask my fellow believers their belief and understanding on a few things, but mostly about the time in which we will all stand before God to be judged. I have been confused about a few things regarding the day of judgement for sometime now. First let me say a few things so you will know where I am.
Romans 8:1 "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit." There are other verses that also speak of no condemnation for those who are saved in, Isaiah 50:9, Luke 6:37, John 3:18, John 5:24, Romans 8:34.
Alright, now, we know that we will not be condemned to hell if we are saved, but condemning someone doesn't always mean an eternal fate, right? It can also mean condemning that which is unfavorable or strongly disapproved of, like sin. So in accordance with these verses is it safe for me to say that those of us who are saved will not be condemned for our sins? And I don't just mean by eternity in hell. I mean by it being brought up by God period.
Isaiah 43:25 "I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins." In this verse I know God is referring to Isreal's transgressions. I definitely do not want to misinterpret this verse so I ask you what you think. Like I said, I know that God is saying He will forget Isreal's transgression in this verse, but can we also take from this verse that He will also forget our sins as well? This is of course assuming repentance and forgiveness has been given us.
Philippians 3:13 &14 "Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, {14} "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus."
Now, I know this verse is no proof that God forgets our wrong doings, but Paul says that he puts his past behind him and focuses on the future. So I ask you, wouldn't God do the same? After forgiving us of our sins wouldn't it be put behind/forgotten by God?
When Jesus died, He paid the price for our sins. Which means that if we are saved we do not have to pay the price for the sins we committed. If we are forgiven then surely they would be forgotten, right? Why would God forgive us only to bring it back up during our judgement. I don't think He will.
So, if this is my belief then why am I asking you all if God forgets our transgressions after forgiving? Here is where I get confused...
2 Corinthians 5:10 "For we must all appear before the judgement seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad."
I want to state some things I read in my Bible commentary on this verse. The MacArthur Bible Commentary BY: John MacArthur, pages 1628 &1629. ..."the realization that every Christian is inevitably and ultimately accountable to Him." (Referring to the words in this verse, the things done in the body) "Actions which happened during the believer's time of earthly ministry. This does not include sins, since their judgement took place at the cross (Eph. 1:7). Paul was refering to all those activities believers do during their lifetimes, which relate to their eternal reward and praise from God." (Referring to the words in this verse, whether good or bad) "These Greek terms do not refer to moral good and moral evil. Matters of sin have been completely dealt with by the death of the Savior. Rather Paul was comparing worthwhile, eternally valuable activities with usless ones."
I understand this...Paul was not saying we will be judged upon sin, but upon worthwhile (good) and useless (bad) things we have done. So I ask...if what we did was useless then why would God even bring it up? What, in God's eyes that is bad, is not a sin? If everthing that is considered bad in God's eyes is a sin, and our sins are forgotten, then what bad could we possibly be judged upon? Am I making sense?
So I ask you these questions...Do we all pretty much agree that once God forgives us of our sins they are forgotten, and will not be brought back up upon our judgement? What is your understanding regarding our judgement?
Maybe if I hear your understanding and beliefs about judgement day I can better understand what is to be expected.
The Bible also says to not use God's grace as a license to sin. When we do sin we need to use that as a lesson to grow closer to God and further from the flesh. God knows the desires of our heart and as the Bible says we see dimly now but when we face eternity this world will grow dim and we will see things in a new light. It won't be a knit picked remember when you
smacked your sister when you were 10 or anything like that. It will probably be more like they say about a persons whole life flashing before you in an instant.
The Bible also says to not use God's grace as a license to sin. When we do sin we need to use that as a lesson to grow closer to God and further from the flesh. God knows the desires of our heart and as the Bible says we see dimly now but when we face eternity this world will grow dim and we will see things in a new light. It won't be a knit picked remember when you
smacked your sister when you were 10 or anything like that. It will probably be more like they say about a persons whole life flashing before you in an instant.
I completely agree, so if I sounded like I was asking because I want to feel okay about the outcome of my sins, I didn't mean it that way. I ask because no one wants to have their wrong doings thrown back in their face, especially those we are sorry for, truly feel guilty about, and try our hardest not to do again. I just wanted to see if it was agreed by others that our sins are forgotten when forgiven. If they are, then what bad are we judged upon? Thinking about judgement day use to terrify me when I was younger. It was my thought, at that time, that God was going to judge me on every bad thing I did, and I could have cried at the thought of it. Now that I am older and a little more knowledgable I see that this is not so, but I am still a little confused because of what Peter wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:10. Just looking for other people's beliefs and understanding on what will happen to help clarify what Peter wrote. Basically this...If our sins are forgotten when forgiven, then what bad is remembered that we will be judged for? I think I know, but then that verse makes me doubt. Just looking for someone who may can clarify, help me to better understand.
Maybe it would be your opportunity to review your life -- the good you did as well as the bad or useless -- not to be smacked in the face with the bad stuff, but to learn from those things and to figure out what the better way would have been.
God, like my mom, could question me, "I took a video of you when you were hiding your little brother's favorite truck. Let's watch the video and think about how you are feeling and how he felt when he couldn't find his truck." Then, after watching the video, "Now let's talk about what you could have done differently and how both you and your brother would have felt."
I believe the afterlife will be a learning process for us, giving us time and space to first look at and assess ourselves honestly and then to go forward to do better after having learned better.
1 john:
9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
Scofield Bible note on 1 cor 3:14
Salvation is a free gift, a present possession [ rom 6:23, Eph 2:8-9]
Rewards are earned by works, a future attainment to be given at the rapture
[luke 19:17][2 tim 4:8]
but from Rom 8 - it isn't our self effort that brings rewards, it is relying on the spirit within to do good works [ eph 2: 10 , gal 5: 22-24]
from CS Lewis' "Mere Christianity" on charity:
"On the whole, God's love for us is a much safer subject to think about than our love for Him. Nobody can always have devout feelings: and even if we could, feelings are not what God principally cares about. Christian Love, either towards God or towards man, is an affair of the will. If we are trying to do His will we are obeying the commandment, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God.' He will give us feelings of love if He pleases. We cannot create them for ourselves, and we must not demand them as a right. But the great thing to remember is that, though our feelings come and go, His love for us does not. It is not wearied by our sins, or our indifference; and, therefore, it is quite relentless in its determination that we shall be cured of those sins, at whatever cost to us, at whatever cost to Him."
Let me take each verse and respond:
Romans 8:1
This is telling us that we are nut under any condemnation from God for our forgiven sins, nor are we to accept the condemnation of Satan and his cohorts. Satan will come and whisper in our ears that we are failures and unloved and worthless, but we are to stand strong in the promise of the LORD that our sins are forgiven and remembered no more.
Isaiah 43:25
Yes this refers to Israel, but also to us. When we confess our sin, we are completely forgiven. 1 John 1:9 (New King James Version)
9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
13 Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, 14 I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
Reaching for those things ahead. To me this is the promise of my rewards in heaven for obedience. IF I obey, and IF I do the work that Jesus calls me to do. Rewards are conditional.
2 Corinthians 5:10
This is speaking to both the Judgments and Rewards. Jesus is a rewarder of those who do right.BibleGateway.com - Keyword Search: reward What we do is not useless unless it is done in our own strength. We are called to Matthew 11:29
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
If we take the yoke of Jesus and allow ourselves to be led by the LORD, we will not strive to be Christians, but the Holy Spirit will work in usPhilippians 1:6
being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ;
Philippians 1:5-7 (in Context) Philippians 1 (Whole Chapter)
Philippians 2:13
for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
We are judged not only for our sins but also for the good we do. Is the good we do because Jesus asked us, or because we did our will? These are the things He looks at.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoonlitWaves
I completely agree, so if I sounded like I was asking because I want to feel okay about the outcome of my sins, I didn't mean it that way. I ask because no one wants to have their wrong doings thrown back in their face, especially those we are sorry for, truly feel guilty about, and try our hardest not to do again. I just wanted to see if it was agreed by others that our sins are forgotten when forgiven. If they are, then what bad are we judged upon? Thinking about judgement day use to terrify me when I was younger. It was my thought, at that time, that God was going to judge me on every bad thing I did, and I could have cried at the thought of it. Now that I am older and a little more knowledgable I see that this is not so, but I am still a little confused because of what Peter wrote in 2 Corinthians 5:10. Just looking for other people's beliefs and understanding on what will happen to help clarify what Peter wrote. Basically this...If our sins are forgotten when forgiven, then what bad is remembered that we will be judged for? I think I know, but then that verse makes me doubt. Just looking for someone who may can clarify, help me to better understand.
Most dispensational fundamentalist christians believe there will be at least three judgments; the judgment seat of Christ (Rom. 14: 10), where christians will be judged on their works; the judgment of the nations (Matt. 25: 31-46), where the nations will be judged worthy or unworthy of entering the millennium based on how they treated Israel; & the Great White throne judgment (Rev. 20: 11-15), where the unsaved will be judged.
It is my experience that many Born Again Christians(of which I was one)think that when they are born again, that that is the end of their life's and Christian journey. I have seen many many Christians relive over and over and over the emotional catharsis of being forgiven. Dwell on it to the exclusion of starting to grow in Christ and become a mature Christian.
If one is growing in Christ, one does not need to focus on judgement day, sins, hell......one in active in positive growth, the focus is forward as it should be. Walking with Christ learning spiritual qualities one must nurture, and eventually, taking a positive place in God's Kingdom whatever one's strengths are and whatever one feels one is called to be!
Any born again believer ought to know that once "born again" is not the end of their Christian journey. The journey has just begun in a new way, call it enlightened if you will. But never done until the last breath.
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