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I have always been confused about religion. I don't know if I believe in God or not. I am a person of reason and hard facts. To me, if I can see it, hear it, or touch it it's real. To me, it just seems like facts against God are more logical than facts for God. I want to believe in God, but there are so many questions unanswered. Can anyone give me an logical argument that can semi-prove God's existence?
You're saying an atheist always has an underlying desire to believe, that they have an emptiness inside them, and frankly, that's just not true.
I am not even talking about atheists at all.
I am well aware that not all atheists feel empty.
worthbeads, however, has said that he/she wants to believe in God but has some unanswered questions. reference the following quote...
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Originally Posted by worthbeads
I want to believe in God, but there are so many questions unanswered.
As I stated before, to quote myself...
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Originally Posted by rudi_in
I worded that the way I did because it appears as though worthbeads may feel this way. If he chooses to ignore his feelings, he may very well grow old with a sense of unfulfillment or emptiness.
There is something that is nagging at worthbeads to believe. If belief never comes to him/her then it seems logical that being unfulfilled or feeling empty could be a result.
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Originally Posted by jillianleab
your statement does not apply to the majority of atheists.
It is not supposed to apply to the majority of anyone.
It was meant for worthbeads - based on statements made by worthbeads.
You choose not to follow him and the teachings of the bible. You continue to have a desire to believe that is never fulfilled and you grow old with an emptiness in your heart.
You die. no heaven, no hell, no big deal.
That directly says atheists are not fulfilled and have an emptiness in their hearts. I see your point that you intended that to only be directed at worth, but, again, you are saying if he chooses to not believe he will have an emptiness. How do you know if he lets go of the notion of heaven and hell he won't feel free and become fulfilled by other things in life?
speech I think the difference is you have a romanticized view of human life. You attribute something profound to love, hate, etc instead of looking at it from a scientific POV and attributing electrical pulses to such feelings. To a scientist, or someone who follows the scientific line of thinking, we aren't anything special. We're just bags of salty water with lots of electricity running through us.
When I was a child and cried after losing my dog, was that a romanticized view of life, or did I hurt down to my very soul? For that matter, as a 46 year old man and I cried for hours after burying my dog this past June, was that just a romanticized view of life or did I hurt down to my very soul? Sure, there were chemicals brewing inside me and electrical impulses racing, but did that convert to the conscious emotional pain I felt over losing my best friend of 10 years, or was my pain the cause of those processes?
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When you break it down, that's what a human is; we're flesh, blood, bone, water, gooey stuff, and there's all sorts of electricity running around in there too. On the LITERAL surface, that's a human. Scientists think on the literal surface. You, and many others, want there to be more than that to humans; it's romanticizing scientific reasoning. You can hook someone up to fancy machines and show them images to demonstrate the electrical impulses of feelings. It can actually be seen, certain parts of the brain light up when certain things happen. That's how scientists explain emotions - they can be seen.
Sure they can be seen, but which was the stimulus, the thought or the impulse? How do you convert electricity into a thought?
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I'm not saying you are wrong or less intelligent for thinking this way - I know you're a smart guy. But I think your religious beliefs lead you to think this way, whereas someone without religious beliefs looks at the literal surface.
Thanks for the kind words, but I don't believe it is religion that leads people to think that way, they have to be taught to think otherwise.
Religion cannot be forced down anyones throat, it has to be understood,believed and accepted.
As for me my religion is not just a private thing, nor does it restrict myself from learning the sciences.
For me it is a way of life, with guidelines from the newborn to the dead, from how to keep myself clean to how to pray, from how to behave with those who believe and those who do not,from how to conduct myself in business transactions to divorce settlements,from how to treat my family to how to treat the needy,from the laws of inheritance to how to dress....
And this is why my faith completes my life....
You choose not to follow him and the teachings of the bible. You continue to have a desire to believe that is never fulfilled and you grow old with an emptiness in your heart.
You die. no heaven, no hell, no big deal.
My quote says that there is a continued desire to believe that is not fulfilled. Being directed at worthbeads, when I say "you choose" it means worthbeads chooses.
My hypothetical situation to worthbeads is that God or no God, heaven or no heaven, hell or no hell, if he wants to believe and never does there is the possibility that he is left unfulilled.
The key here is that worthbeads said that he wants to believe.
If you want something and never get it, would that not leave you unfulfilled in some way?
There are some good books on Creation vs Evolution if you are as inquisitive about your logical side as you say you are. Not to say one way or another, but if scientists and people were as "Logical" as they say they are, society would not be so quick to displace the Creation theory. Do you realize that Evolution has become so accepted as truth that it is taught as fact in schools? Do you realize that it is still given the title of "Theory"? This means it has not been proven as fact...... I am not saying to believe in one or the other, I am simply trying to get people to not believe everything you are taught. We have to be free thinkers and think for yourself. Test everything. Do you realize that the creation theory says that the earth is only 6000 yrs old? Noahs flood is what caused the dinosaurs to die off, causing the polar ice caps to form instantly and not over millions of years. Read some objective books on Carbon dating and you will find that it is not a reliable way of dating objects. They have found sub-tropical plant fossils in the north pole. Something to think about.
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Originally Posted by worthbeads
Yeah, but what if my soul lives on in some sort of hell? At my faith level right now I am most likely not assured to stay out of hell.
That implies there IS a soul. I know you believe there is such a thing, but there is no proof of such a thing.
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Sure they can be seen, but which was the stimulus, the thought or the impulse? How do you convert electricity into a thought?
I don't know, I'm not a scientist. I'm just a boring business student.
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Thanks for the kind words, but I don't believe it is religion that leads people to think that way, they have to be taught to think otherwise.
In a way I agree with you here. Unless one is taught about the electrical impulses and how on a literal surface the human body functions, they will more than likey assume it's "magic" or "god" or whatever. When we don't understand something, we look for a way to explain it. I guess what I meant to say is your religion furthers your belief there is something more profound to humans than what science has demonstrated.
rudi, I see your point. Your comments were directed at worth and at worth alone.
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If you want something and never get it, would that not leave you unfulfilled in some way?
But there is still the possibility that if he chooses NOT to believe, if he realizes belief DOESN'T fill his needs, that lack of belief WILL fill his needs. People often talk about how accepting Jesus into your hearts gives you a sense of fulfillment, but why can't that same fulfillment be reached by rejecting him? To say one can only be fulfilled by accepting religion is not accurate. Religion can set you free - so can lack of religion.
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