[sndbay]

Posted #8

The conception of fraternal twins can be two different time periods. So I can suppose that Cain was conceived outside of what we call wedlock or before God intended. This was the deception Satan caused and what is refer as bastard wheat or the beginning of tares.

First let me clarify the suggestion of out of weblock being the idea that Eve had eaten with another other then her husband..because it does say she ate of it thereof and followed in saying she offered it also to her husband.. OR the second underlined suggestion was that the the desire was before God intended..

[sndbay]

Posted #10

But didn't God give Eve to be Adam's wife when He created her?
Genesis 2:24
Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

No I don't feel Genesis 2: 23-24 is specific in saying Adam and Eve are married. However I do feel the verses tell us that woman, when they was made on the sixth day (Genesis1: 27) were made second to man. The rib in Genesis 2:22 is a segolate form in Hebrew which can be read as rib-bone-bone marol. It is misleading to believe man has one less rib then woman, because it is not true. But to understand that woman was made by the bone marol of man making her as Adam said , This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. She was made like man yet different in appearance. The appearance of the flesh was not yet introduces in awareness of any shame,(Genesis2:25) and the scripture before that went on to say.. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Clearly meaning a man and woman will leave mother and father to marry each other when the time comes and cleave unto her.

In the next chaper Genesis 3:4 has Satan telling woman the opposite truth from what God has warned. The deception begins in woman listening to Satan. Adam and Eve were married, and yet she is looking upon what Satan has offered. And I believe woman touched upon the idea of nudedness having desire, with Satan as the tree showing the knowledge of this idea is the evilness. Woman there of ate of it from the tree, and gave ALSO to her husband. We can read how this desire was offered to Adam secondly, and quoted in scripture: a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

So Cain was conceived out of weblock with another other then her husband, or before God intended and against God's warning. Either way it was by desire of the flesh which Satan offered in knowledge.

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Note desire will be for her husand... he rules over her so there is no going by another suggestion from someone other then him.

Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;

Note it is that Adam ate of the same tree, and the scripture said a tree to be desired.(Genesis 3:6)

[sndbay]

Ohhhh, I don't think so. You've got a lot of dots to connect. How do we get from here to "tares being a black bastard wheat is the same idea of when Satan deceived Eve in the garden. Cain was the devils seed sown in deception, and the first murderer from the beginning. The tare sown, by Satan." You'll have to paint the entire picture, I still don't get it. You've got to remember, I can be thick headed.

And, I'm not buying.


JoeT

Joe sorry I had to leave because of the drifting snow storm we were experiencing yesterday.

The supposed idea is further offered, but please understand that each scripture given plants the seed of thought. It is up to God to reveal to each as He wants. I believe this idea more then any Apple or actual eating of fruit. The scriptures link together showing the mystery starting in the beginning.

There is reason why I find this idea clearly give idenite to the eaten fruit. For it was done before God intended in disobedience to God's warning. The desire of sex is the reason for covering the flesh.

2 Cr 11:2-3 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

This last verse suggests that should we go do what is contrary to what we are told by God, it would be the beguiled desire feed by Satan. Which would cause us to conceive or give birth to something other then what God intended, and warned not to do

2 Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

[De Maria]

Posted #10



No I don't feel Genesis 2: 23-24 is specific in saying Adam and Eve are married. However I do feel the verses tell us that woman, when they was made on the sixth day (Genesis1: 27) were made second to man. The rib in Genesis 2:22 is a segolate form in Hebrew which can be read as rib-bone-bone marol. It is misleading to believe man has one less rib then woman, because it is not true. But to understand that woman was made by the bone marol of man making her as Adam said , This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man. She was made like man yet different in appearance. The appearance of the flesh was not yet introduces in awareness of any shame,(Genesis2:25) and the scripture before that went on to say.. Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. Clearly meaning a man and woman will leave mother and father to marry each other when the time comes and cleave unto her.

In the next chaper Genesis 3:4 has Satan telling woman the opposite truth from what God has warned. The deception begins in woman listening to Satan. Adam and Eve were married, and yet she is looking upon what Satan has offered. And I believe woman touched upon the idea of nudedness having desire, with Satan as the tree showing the knowledge of this idea is the evilness. Woman there of ate of it from the tree, and gave ALSO to her husband. We can read how this desire was offered to Adam secondly, and quoted in scripture: a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

So Cain was conceived out of weblock with another other then her husband, or before God intended and against God's warning. Either way it was by desire of the flesh which Satan offered in knowledge.

Genesis 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire [shall be] to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

Note desire will be for her husand... he rules over her so there is no going by another suggestion from someone other then him.

Genesis 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat [of] it all the days of thy life;

Note it is that Adam ate of the same tree, and the scripture said a tree to be desired.(Genesis 3:6)

I'm not sure if you are saying that Eve actually had sexual relations with Satan. We don't believe that.

On the other hand, it has been suggested by one I'm aware of, that Adam and Eve may have had contraceptive sex.

[sndbay]

I'm not sure if you are saying that Eve actually had sexual relations with Satan. We don't believe that.
.

Well from what scripture says, I can't warrant anything further then touching the desire there of which was offered by Satan. But I feel we can firmly say the disobedience that lead to sexual desire was what caused the covering of the flesh.

As I posted to Joe previously, scripture further links the deception of Satan' attempts, can cause us to bear what is conceived in following him.

2 Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

The parable does also link with the seed that was sown by Satan from the beginning.

[De Maria]

Well from what scripture says, I can't warrant anything further then touching the desire there of which was offered by Satan. But I feel we can firmly say the disobedience that lead to sexual desire was what caused the covering of the flesh.....

I can agree with that.

[sndbay]

2 Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

So with this scripture in mind, would we agree that
to go contrary to what we are told by God, it would be a beguiled desire feed by Satan. Which would cause us to conceive or give birth to something other then what God intended?

And result with the devil's seed refer as tares?

[De Maria]

2 Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

So with this scripture in mind, would we agree that
to go contrary to what we are told by God, it would be a beguiled desire feed by Satan. Which would cause us to conceive or give birth to something other then what God intended?

And result with the devil's seed refer as tares?

Yes. I believe that would be consistent with God's referring to Israel as committing adultery in the Old Testament (Jer 13:27).

[arcura]

De Maria,
I much agree with that.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[JoeT777]

Joe sorry I had to leave because of the drifting snow storm we were experiencing yesterday.

The supposed idea is further offered, but please understand that each scripture given plants the seed of thought. It is up to God to reveal to each as He wants. I believe this idea more then any Apple or actual eating of fruit. The scriptures link together showing the mystery starting in the beginning.

There is reason why I find this idea clearly give idenite to the eaten fruit. For it was done before God intended in disobedience to God's warning. The desire of sex is the reason for covering the flesh.

2 Cr 11:2-3 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present [you as] a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

This last verse suggests that should we go do what is contrary to what we are told by God, it would be the beguiled desire feed by Satan. Which would cause us to conceive or give birth to something other then what God intended, and warned not to do

2 Cr 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or [if] ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with [him].

The Catholic Church doesn’t teach anything like this. To me it seems like twisted and forced interpretation.

In fact what we find is that the “seed of Cain” doctrine fosters a hate, primarily against Jews, Catholics, and blacks. I lived in the South and went through some of this in the early and late 60’s and I should have caught on right away. I just couldn't kick my memory in gear. As I learned today, the doctrine originates from a faith healer William M. Branham (1909-1965), and Daniel Parker (1791-1844) an earlier proponent. A central teaching Branham’s is a restoration of “the true apostolic faith” to the church. Included in some of controversial doctrines is “the serpent seed doctrine.” Parker was a Primitive Baptist with Gnostic like Manichaeism views. Parker published his views, Views on the Two Seeds, 1826.

The twisted verses work out as follows: The Serpent Seed doctrine held that Eve had sexual intercourse with an upright serpent, thought to be the ‘missing link’ between man and ape. Being cursed by God the serpent retains its current shape and form today. Cain was considered the offspring of satan. Adam on the other hand was considered pure. Intermarriage caused “inbreeding” and thus certain races were more pure than others.

The Catholic Church doesn’t comment on the doctrine however holds its own clear doctrine on original sin which in my opinion would preclude these views.


Branhamism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Serpent seed - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Daniel Parker - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

JoeT

[arcura]

JoeT777
Thanks much for that information some of it wild and weird as it is.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[JoeT777]

As I understand it, "The Kingdom of God" includes a great deal more than "the Church". Do you really believe that the two are synonymous?

Yes

[arcura]

JoeT777,
I fully agree with you. YES!!
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[De Maria]

As I understand it, "The Kingdom of God" includes a great deal more than "the Church". Do you really believe that the two are synonymous?

Depends on what you mean by Church. We believe the Church is the House of God. Therefore, yes, it is equivalent to Kingdom of God.

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself In the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

[arcura]

De Maria,
Yes millions of houses (many are mansions) of God have been built for the love of God and in which to love and worship God over the ages.
Merry Christmas.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[ordinaryguy]

Depends on what you mean by Church. We believe the Church is the House of God. Therefore, yes, it is equivalent to Kingdom of God.

You assert a definitional equivalence here, but don't provide a reasoned argument. I'm not persuaded that any reasonable definition of "Church" is synonymous with the Kingdom of God. That you would equate the two makes me think that your view of the Kingdom is impossibly narrow and restrictive.

[Maggie 3]

The Parable of The Weeds Explained Matthew 13:36-43 NIV,

36:: Then He left the crowd and went into the house. His disciples came to him and said
explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field.
37: He answered, the one who sowed the good seed is the Son of Man
38: the field is the world, and the good seed stands for the Son of the kingdom. The weeds are the sons of the evil one,
39: and the enemy who sows them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age and the harvesters.
40: As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
41: The Son of Man sends out his angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.
42: They will throw them into the fiery furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
43: Then the rightous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has
ears let him hear.

I know many will not look the scripture up so I decided to type it out for you.
In case you haven't figured it out... the fiery furnace is HELL.

Maggie 3

[cozyk]

You assert a definitional equivalence here, but don't provide a reasoned argument. I'm not persuaded that any reasonable definition of "Church" is synonymous with the Kingdom of God. That you would equate the two makes me think that your view of the Kingdom is impossibly narrow and restrictive.

Once again we are back to the interpretation of a word in a scripture, This is what I mean when I say "who knows?" When we don't know the correct meaning, how can we be so absolute with our assertions ?

[ordinaryguy]

40: As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age.
41: The Son of Man sends out his angels, and they will weed out of His kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil.

This makes it pretty clear that until the end of the age, which hasn't happened yet, the weeds are included and allowed to grow within The Kingdom. So, if The Kingdom is synonymous with The Church, then The Weeds are at the present time, i.e. before the harvest, contained within The Church.

It seems to me that the plain meaning of the text is that, at least until after The Harvest, there is much that is outside The Church, but within The Kingdom.

I know many will not look the scripture up so I decided to type it out for you.

You're right, I wouldn't have. Thank you.

[magprob]

The "weeds" have infiltrated Christain governments and Christian life through mass media to spread decadence and immorality.
In his Biblical account of those things which “must be hereafter,” St John spoke of this “beast” whose power was given to him by the ancient dragon, Satan himself. “Who can make war with the beast?” St John heard the multitudes exclaim in awe of the beast's powers. And today, it is the multitude of deluded Christian-Zionists who are in awe of the Israelis, turning a blind eye to their atrocities against the Palestinians.
Whether they know it or not, most Christians are being spoon fed false doctrine that allows the "weeds" to grow up around us.

DeMaria: Cain IS the literal seed of Satan.
Why did Adam and Eve cover their private parts before GOD? Satan corupted the line of Adam through which he knew the Lord of Lords would be arriving.