The Scriptures say that the Church is the Pillar and Ground of Truth (1 Tim 3:15) and that if we don't hear the Church (Matt 18:17) we should be treated as heathen.

Yet some people say we should neglect the Church and listen to Scripture alone?

Why, if doing so is to disobey Scripture?

N0help4u

The spiritual component IS the MAIN thing I take into consideration.

Traditions of man

The celibacy of the priesthood was decreed by Pope Hildebrand, Boniface VII

Jesus imposed no such rule, nor did any of the apostles. On the contrary, St. Peter was a married man, and St. Paul says that bishops were to have wife and children. (1st Timothy 3:2,5, and 12; Matthew 8:14-15).

Fish Friday -Fasting on Fridays and during Lent were imposed
Imposed by popes said to be interested in the commerce of fish. some authorities say, began in the year 700. This is against the plain teaching of the Bible. (Matthew 15:10; 1st Corinthians 10:25; 1st Timothy 4:1-3).

Praying to Mary -The Bible teaches that we pray to God alone. In the primitive church never were prayers directed to Mary, or to dead saints. This practice began in the Roman Church
(Matthew 11:28; Luke 1:46; Acts 10:25-26; 14:14-18)

Jesus did not appoint Peter to the headship of the apostles and forbade any such notion. (Luke 22:24-26; Ephesians 1:22-23; Colossians 1:18; 1st Corinthians 3:11).
Nor is there any mention in Scripture, nor in history, that Peter ever was in Rome, much less that he was pope there for 25 years; Clement, 3rd bishop of Rome, remarks that "there is no real 1st century evidence that Peter ever was in Rome."

Canonization of dead saints, first by Pope John XV
Every believer and follower of Christ is called saint in the Bible. (Read Romans 1:7; 1st Colossians 1:2).

Confession of sin to the priest at least once a year was instituted by Pope Innocent III., in the Lateran Council
The Bible commands us to confess our sins direct to God. (Psalm 51:1-10; Luke 7:48; 15:21; 1st John 1:8-9).
Confessing to the one you offended and refers to asking forgiveness and showing repentance. Not meant for confessing to Priest.

The doctrine of Purgatory was proclaimed as a dogma of faith by Council of Florence
There is not one word in the Bible that would teach the purgatory of priests. The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth us from all sins. (1st John 1:7-9; 2:1-2; John 5:24; Romans 8:1).

The Immaculate Conception of the Virgin Mary was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX
The Bible states that all men, with the sole exception of Christ, are sinners. Mary herself had need of a Savior. (Romans 3:23; 5:12; Psalm 51:5; Luke 1:30,46,47).

arcura

No help 4 you,
You quoted from the book of revelation and THAT is the book Paul referred to, NOT the bible itself which was promulgated centuries later.
Many of the apostles wrote letters and information that they were taught by Jesus or by some of the original twelve which us not in today's bible.
Those teachings and information that was written is called oral tradition which the bibke tells us that we should follow.
Yes, one of the apostles in the bible says to falllow "the traditions I have taught you".
The bible its self is a tradition; written Scripture tradition.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

RickJ

Tis not my own horn but I'll toot it anyway. Here's a bit I wrote about Sola Scriptura elsewhere:

About Sola Scriptura (the "Bible Alone")

Sola Scriptura is the idea that the Bible is sufficient of itself to be the only source of Christian doctrine.

If we believe in this doctrine, then we should find it in the Bible, right?

In fact, we do not.

The scripture passage so often cited by proponents of Sola Scriptura is 2 Timothy 3: 15-17, however you shall see that Paul teaches nothing of the sort:

2 Timothy 3: 15-17:
"...from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."

Here there is not even the slightest implication that Scripture is the sole source of doctrine. Indeed, it affirms the value of Scripture - and that it is from God (which Catholics are taught), however nothing implies that it is all we need. To say that Scripture is "useful" is one thing, but to say it is the only writing that ought to be followed is another altogether.

Not only is the idea of Sola Scriptura not found in Scripture, itself, the New Testament, in fact, teaches against it:

2 Thessalonians 2:15
" So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the teachings we passed on to you, whether by word of mouth or by letter."

1 Corinthians 11:2
"I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to the teachings, just as I passed them on to you."

2 Timothy 1:13-14
"What you heard from me, keep as the pattern of sound teaching, with faith and love in Christ Jesus.Guard the good deposit that was entrusted to you—guard it with the help of the Holy Spirit who lives in us."

2 Timothy 2:1-2
"You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus. And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable men who will also be qualified to teach others."

The Bible is indeed the Word of God and without error, but neither Christ nor the Bible teach such an idea as Sola Scriptura.

Catholic Truths: Ecumenical Apologetics. Sola Scriptura

sndbay

In my opinion you can not ask this question... The church or temple would be Christ, and the ground truth again is Christ. So if you don't hear Christ the foundation of church we should be treated as heathen.. No question about that..

Has the church become a structure? Has the Sabbath become a day? Nay.. it should not be so..

Follow scripture is walking with Christ.. He is our Sabbath.. He is our Church.. He is the Word in scripture.

~In Chirst

N0help4u

Yep like I said the Matt 17 is about falling away from the faith not the church (building).

arcura

RickJ,
Exceptionally well said.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

N0help4u

I believe the differentiation is between Scriptural traditions and man's traditions
so we can argue throughout time about tradition but what IS backed up by scripture?
The Bible DOES warn against man made tradition taught as truth.

arcura

NoHelp4You,
Which man's tradition is the problem. Jesus and his apostles were men.
It is their tradition that I rely on, not that of others who want to discard their traditional teachings as mentioned in the bible and in later writings.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

N0help4u

So whose to say what traditions are acceptable and what ones are not if a church can just make traditions and doctrines. Any religion or cult should be able to make up traditions because the apostles were men and taught tradition?

I already replied above with a list.

sndbay

Should we say man made church traditions and teaching. I follow in Christ Word, and in Christ teaching.

In Acts Peter told who they followed when they were brought before the council and the high priest.
KJV Acts 5:27-29 And when they had brought them, they set [them] before the council: and the high priest asked them, 28 Saying, Did not we straitly command you that ye should not teach in this name? and, behold, ye have filled Jerusalem with your doctrine, and intend to bring this man's blood upon us.29 Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.