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michealb · Oct 4, 2007, 03:03 PM

Originally Posted by Choux

Some Muslim men are far more violent than Christians.

I read an interesting article that said it may not be religion to fully be blamed for the violence in the middle east. The article said polygamy is to blame. The fact that they have a surplus of men who are poor and have no chance at a wife. So if you are poor and have have no chance at offspring and little chance at bettering yourself. We all might get violent.

michealb · Oct 4, 2007, 03:29 PM

Originally Posted by firmbeliever

Islam is here to stay and will exist until the end of time, no matter which "intelligent" person says it will not!

It has to be something other than intellect the separates us because Firm you might be smarter than me I don't know you certainly write better than I do but when I look at religion it seems simple I dismiss all faiths equally. It just doesn't seem logical to not do so, how can you dismiss one and not all when all have the same amount of evidence.

firmbeliever · Oct 4, 2007, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by michealb

It has to be something other than intellect the separates us because Firm you might be smarter than me I don't know you certainly write better than I do but when I look at religion it seems simple I dismiss all faiths equally. It just doesn't seem logical to not do so, how can you dismiss one and not all when all have the same amount of evidence.

Mine makes most sense to "me".
Including scientific research etc, I do not see proof not to believe.:)

P.s.could you direct questions to me regarding Islam on the Islam board.
I seem to be stepping on toes on other religious boards! Thanks.

Choux · Oct 4, 2007, 04:02 PM

firmbeliever, etc, The likely scenario of the die-off of human beings on planet earth could easily be that the last person on earth to die from water pollultion and air pollution would be a Chinese atheist. After The War for Water in Asia is won years earlier by the Chinese.

firmbeliever · Oct 4, 2007, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Choux

firmbeliever, etc, The likely scenario of the die-off of human beings on planet earth could easily be that the last person on earth to die from water pollultion and air pollution would be a Chinese atheist. After The War for Water in Asia is won years earlier by the Chinese.

The last person on earth need not be a muslim:).
Islam meaning submission to One God and all living things acknowledge this.

Until all living things are destroyed Islam exists.

MoonlitWaves · Oct 4, 2007, 04:07 PM

Originally Posted by michealb

Moonlitwaves,
You don't think the fact that atheist are currently the most hated group in a America gives a child pause before he chooses to turn away from religion. It gave me pause I still don't tell people about it in my personal life for fear of what people will do. Brain washing may be the wrong word for it, maybe it's more like conditioning. Children believe what they are told, it's why we all believe in the tooth fairy and santa clause, when we are young. Yes, we start to question it and our parents come clean but say parent didn't admit they are fairy tales. How long do you think a child would believe in santa clause? If the parent instead said you have to believe or santa doesn't bring you presents. If the parent could get a good portion of the people that spoke to the child to continue with the joke. I'm willing to bet you would have a almost 90% retention rate of adults that believed in santa and would point to the present left by their parent as physical proof of santa and nothing that you could do later in that adults life would shake his believe that Santa is alive and well and brings him presents every christmas.

There are people who are religious that are smarter than I am maybe even some on this board. So I don't think it is solely a matter of intellect. At the same time it seems so simple to me that I don't understand why someone can't see it. Group think, conditioning or maybe just the fact that people tend to blindly follow authority, I'm not sure how you would test that.

I'm sure there may be some who are more susceptible to believe everything they are told, especially if it is by those they love, hold dear or trust. But that's grouping. We are not all the same and therefore shouldn't all be put into one group. If your theory of conditioning or brain washing is correct then that means everyone would believe what they were taught to believe, but this is not the case therefore this disproves that we are "all" brain washed. All I'm saying is that I do not like to be put into a group with others when my thoughts, my knowledge, my actions, my level of spirituality is my own and stands alone. It should not be grouped with others because we are not all the same. We do not think the same and do not act the same.
Just as you think it seems so simple and you can't understand why people don't see it... I think that seeing God truly exists is so simple I don't understand why others can't see it as well.
I understand what you are saying when you use your santa senerio, but I still disagree. Maybe there are many weak minded people out there, but I am not one of them and therefore should not be put in the same category/group as them. That's what I was getting at.
And it goes the other way as well. How do you know that your thoughts on religion weren't persuaded by your parents and role models? Because you just know it. Well so do we.

deist · Oct 4, 2007, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Religion Must Be Destroyed, Atheist Alliance Declares

No word on whether or not tolerance was a subject of discussion although one of the speakers at the conference, Sale McGowan, believes "humility is the natural inheritance of atheism." I'm not sure one reconciles these "bright" atheists pronouncement that religion must be destroyed with the pronouncement that "humility is the natural inheritance of atheism." Anyone? Or is it all just an atheist aversion?

Also, is anyone out there in fear of moderate Christians taking the next step and blowing themselves up, or is Harris right in that "Christians had a right to be outraged when the media treated the two religions similarly?"

I'm in fear of christians taking the next step & blowing themselves & others up. Have you not heard of the far right & what they believe in ? You probably believe the far right is harmless, but they want to turn America, indeed, the world, into a totalitarian theocracy where there is no religious liberty except for christians, no free speech, & no separation of church & state. I'm in fear of muslims for the same reasons. I, however, am not an atheist. I believe in the Deist God. Also, not everyone in America who believe in a God are christians.

Leidenschaftlich für Wahr · Oct 4, 2007, 05:00 PM

Well, I st say that Christians do definitely have their radicals and extremists. Im not much for the turn or burn tactic, at all, but they are out there.
However it is much more prominent in the islamic reigion, having their hatred especially directed at Christians because we have "more than one god" because of the trinity.
In regards to the statement that there should be no faith in the schools...
WHAT THE HECK DO ATHIESTS CALL EVOLUTION??
Face the facts, when people want to believe something they ill take whatever 'proof' is thrown at them and take it as it is, without even checking the validity of the matter.
Like when I believe this same person who made this post made one about contradictions in the Bible, but when you go and actually look at the context there is blatantly no contradiction except for mans inerpretation...

michealb · Oct 4, 2007, 05:46 PM

Moonlitwaves
Not all methods of control work on all people some people it won't work. They won't join heavens gate or Jim Jones cults it's not that they are to smart it's that the method that leader is using doesn't work on them.

I'm sure my thoughts on religion were influenced by my parents and after reading many studies on how the human mind can be trick and fooled. I came to the conclusion that until you realize that you are not above being fooled your thoughts aren't your own.
“The fool doth think he is wise, but the wise man knows himself a fool.”
Anatole France
Leidenschaftlich für Wahr
Evolution is not faith. Evolution has been directly observed. I've seen it, you can see it you want to no faith required just a microscope and a few weeks with some yeast cells.

I'm pretty sure Deist made the post about the contradictions and as far as I remember Speechlesstx is a christian

Wangdoodle · Oct 4, 2007, 07:26 PM

Through out the ages there have been atrocities committed by people of religion. I would not directly blame a person’s religion unless the tenets of the religion call for such acts. I look at what the religion is teaching, not just the actions of those who claim a religion. I do not know what atheists look to for their moral compass. I am sure it is as different to each individual. Myself as a Christian I look to the teaching of my church as my moral compass.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church

Part 3, Section 2, Chapter 2, Article 5, SubSection 2, Heading 4

2297 Kidnapping and hostage taking bring on a reign of terror; by means of threats they subject their victims to intolerable pressures. They are morally wrong. Terrorism threatens, wounds, and kills indiscriminately is gravely against justice and charity. Torture which uses physical or moral violence to extract confessions, punish the guilty, frighten opponents, or satisfy hatred is contrary to respect for the person and for human dignity. Except when performed for strictly therapeutic medical reasons, directly intended amputations, mutilations, and sterilizations performed on innocent persons are against the moral law.

I can assure you there is a 0% chance of me blowing myself up!

inthebox · Oct 4, 2007, 07:29 PM

Michaelb:

"Not all methods of control work on all people some people it won't work."

I know that there are those Christians that want to "control" what others think and how to behave, but if you look at the Bible as a whole, it is obvious that mankind has free will. God gives us freedom to choose, and accept the consequences.

God is love. And power and love are opposites. The former is selfish and the latter is selfless. There is no "controlling" someone to become obedient. There is a free choice, an act of love, to be obedient.

Also you can look at yeast or bacteria under a microscope for as long as you want, they do not "evolve " into another species. Acquire different traits, yes, but a prokaryotic cell becoming eukaryotic under manmade conditions, don't hold your breath.

Grace and Peace

michealb · Oct 4, 2007, 07:50 PM

The bible may say the god gives you the right to choose but the church doesn't and have proven many times that they will do what they have to in order to push their belief on as many people as possible.

I hate to talk about evolution again but I think part of the problem people have with evolution is that species are not hard things set in stone. As a species acquires new small traits over hundreds of thousands of years it becomes a new species. Just like mankind took wolfs (Canis lupus) and bred them to (Canis domesticus) and yes I can't observe that cause it takes to long but we have it documented with fossil records of the common dog.

Tj3 · Oct 4, 2007, 08:17 PM

Originally Posted by michealb

As a species acquires new small traits over hundreds of thousands of years it becomes a new species.

Show us the evidence.

inthebox · Oct 4, 2007, 09:03 PM

Artificial selection (like the breeding of dogs), can also produce horizontal change within a particular kind (white Poodles vs. black Great Danes). However, this is merely
" microevolution" involving the sorting and/or loss of previously existing genetic information (alleles), not the creation of new information in the genome. Breeding or selecting frogs for thousands or even for millions of years can only produce breeds of frogs.

Greg Quinn · Oct 5, 2007, 01:24 AM

Oh... I do love reading these posts! But let's all stick to logic? Fact? Oh wait we can't discuss religion with logic and fact! Sorry everyone please continue.

Marily · Oct 5, 2007, 06:11 AM

People might be able to destroy religion but the will never destroy God's WORD

michealb · Oct 5, 2007, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by Greg Quinn

Oh... I do love reading these posts! But let's all stick to logic? Fact? Oh wait we can't discuss religion with logic and fact! Sorry everyone please continue.

Apparently it seems you can not reason religion out of someone and why did no one dispute that Jesus and Hercules are the same story I expected someone to say something about it.

If you all want to discuss evolution with me and others. Someone open a thread in the science section and send me a pm and I will be happy to contribute there otherwise we have gotten off topic. It was probably my fault but maybe the fact that religion is trying to stamp out sound ideas and replace them with things that do not hold up under scientific method is a good reason we should get rid of religion.

jillianleab · Oct 5, 2007, 07:09 AM

Greg Quinn agrees: True... But we are but a few and our minds get lost... Maybe because your god does not believe in atheists?

I appreciate the greenie, Greg, but you have mistaken me for a theist... I'm not. :)

speechlesstx · Oct 5, 2007, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

I wasn't questioning your source. It's obvious what the guy is doing regardless of who reports it. I mention Fox News becasue your sensationalistic topic and first post are similar to what the laughing stock of the 'news' industry does. Funny how that's the only thing you decided to comment on.

Sensationalistic is Media Matters reporting Limbaugh slammed the troops and Senate Democrats offering a resolution to condemn the man for a quote taken out of context. Sensationalistic is Howard Dean reporting "President Bush rejected health care for children." Reporting on atheists declaring religion must be destroyed is necessary, in effect declaring war on millions of people of faith, is necessary.

The only reason Fox News is a "laughingstock" to anyone is they are successful in spite of not carrying the liberal mantra like every other network news channel. As for your last comment, come back to reality. That post consisted of 526 words, 504 of which were not about Fox News.

jillianleab · Oct 5, 2007, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by speechlesstx

Sensationalistic is Howard Dean reporting "President Bush rejected health care for children."

Hey! That's verbatum what I heard on the radio yesterday evening! :D

Reporting on atheists declaring religion must be destroyed is necessary, in effect declaring war on millions of people of faith, is necessary.

Do you really see this as an immediate and significant threat? The great "Unholy Trinity" have been talking about this for a while now, I don't see it going anywhere.