Is the Old Testament God's Word? Or has it lost its savor? Is the God of the Old Testament the same as the God of the New Testament? Should students of the Bible even bother reading the Old Testament? Is the Old Testament even part of the Bible? Lots of questions based on one topic.

inthebox

Again - for those who don't believe in God/Bible/Jesus Christ - why do you quote from a source you don't believe in ?

That is intellectually dishonest.

Matthew 4
The Temptation of Jesus
1Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil. 2After fasting forty days and forty nights, he was hungry. 3The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
4Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'[a]"

5Then the devil took him to the holy city and had him stand on the highest point of the temple. 6"If you are the Son of God," he said, "throw yourself down. For it is written:
" 'He will command his angels concerning you,
and they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.'[b]"

7Jesus answered him, "It is also written: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'[c]"

8Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. 9"All this I will give you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me."

10Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'[d]"

11Then the devil left him, and angels came and attended him.


See even the Devil can misquote scripture.




Grace and Peace

Capuchin

inthebox, I think that non-believers quote from the bible because they wish to understand it. If they find something that doesnt make sense in their mind, they will question it and ask a believer for an explanation.

How else do you learn about the bible? Or does the fact that we don't believe mean that we're not allowed to seek understanding of it?

NeedKarma

a)When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord (Lev 1:9). The problem is my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
Jesus Christ's death of the cross was the final offering and the ultimate sacrifice. No need to burn bull in the backyard, unless you're having a BBQ.
The Bible does not say that this is obsolete, only you do.

b) I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her?
My first ancestor who came to America in the early 1600s came as an endentured slave. It was not uncommon for those who were in debt to willingly go into slavery to pay their way out of debt. It was a temporary condition. Romans 13 discusses being subject to the civil authorities. If the government you are under does not allow slavery then we are to obey that government. Nowhere in Exodus or anywhere else was it commanded that we should sell loved ones into salvery.
So selling your daughter into slavery can’t be done if your local government has rules against it. So a government can supersede the Bible. Fair enough.

c) I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness (Lev 15:19-24). The problem is, how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.
No need to ask a woman if she is experiencing her cycle. If she has any scruples, she will handle the matter on her own and discretely.
But you evaded the fact that we should have no contact with her.

d) Lev. 25:44 states that I may indeed possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
Bondmen and bondwomen were servants. They worked for room and board. They answered to whomever offered room and board and owned the property. Sounds like I fall into that category. I have to answer to my boss and I get paid enough to pay for room and board. No mention of anyone getting whipped or beaten. Fact is, there are tons of American children abducted each year and sold into slavery in other countries and I bet they aren't being treated as well as the servants of the Old Testament.
Sorry, I don’t buy your little generalization. You can walk away from your job at any time, you can form a union for better rights. Employment does not equal slavery. Rationalizing that slaves were well treated (there is no way in the world you can ever know that so I assume you made it up) is no excuse for slavery.

e) I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him myself?
One man was put to death for working on the Sabbath. It shows how important it is to obey God's commands. God must take the Sabbath very seriously if He was willing to go to those lengths. There are other passages that state that the wages of sin is death; therefore, Sabbath-breaking doesn't stand alone in that category.
But yet millions of people work on the Sabbath and no one is killing them. Why?

f) A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an Abomination (Lev 11:10), it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this?
It is a lesser "abomination" than homosexuality. It's hard to beat that abomination. Abstaining from shell fish, pork, etc. was a way to stay healthy. God created some creatures to clean up the messes left on earth or in the water. Those creatures eat up all the dead and decaying matter to help remove diseases and bacteria. Eat them if you must but if you have a choice, try something cleaner.
Nice that you get a chance to throw in your homophobia. I wasn’t aware that the Bible makes a list a greater and lesser abominations … no wait, it doesn’t, only you do. So now that abomination (shellfish) really is not one; how many more bits in the Bible do you not follow?

g) Lev 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some wiggle room here?
This whole chapter concerns itself with the Levitical priesthood which was a shadow of things to come. Christ, our Priest of priests, was perfect.
Where in the Bible is it written that this restriction has been lifted?

h) Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev 19:27. How should they die?
Again, speaking of the priesthood and not every man.
I believe the Pentacosts take this to mean all men. Yet they use the same Bible.

i) I know from Lev 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?
Correct. Pigs are very unclean and full of parasites. Even touching them can be dangerous to your health. However, by the time the football skin has been processed, cleaned, tanned, etc., it won't have the effect that skin dripping with blood would.
So many untruths in your reply. Here, learn more about pigs here.

j) My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev 19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? (Lev 24:10-16) Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)
This speaks of the adulteration of God's creation. God's blueprint or design was specific. The first page of Genesis speaks of plants with "seed in itself." Even the New Testament says not to yoke two different animals together unequally. None of the above will send someone to hell. It's just basic common sense.
Yet everyday you probably eat food from fields that have adjacent crops. So it seems that no one follows that ‘rule’ as well. By ‘common sense’ are you saying that you know more than agriculturists?

Obvioulsy, the person who compiled these questions doesn't have much use for God or for rules. He has a bone to pick. Not uncommon and to be expected. My concern when I posted the question for this thread had to do with how Christians view the Bible, not how Christ haters viewed it.
The person mentioned verses from the same Bible that you follow literally. How can you find fault in that?
You see hate in everyone who is not like you, that is sad and a bad example for all.

inthebox

NK

Dr Laura is an Orthodox Jew, maybe this letter would be better addressed on that forum.

As a Christian, and I speak only for myself, I would advise reading, studying, and fellowship with other Christians. see my prior posts on this thread.

I do believe, as you do, that hate [ for example, Westboro Baptist ] is NOT consistent with Christianity.



Grace and Peace

NeedKarma

The Dr. Laura part is a hoax and it really doesn't matter the source does it? (See ad hominem: consists of replying to an argument or factual claim by attacking or appealing to the person making the argument or claim, rather than by addressing the substance of the argument or producing evidence against the claim.)

Is this not a thread dealing with the Old Testament?

poppa0777

I believe all of the Bible; Old and New testaments are God's Word. For me it has NOT lost it's savor (strength).
(Heb 4:12) For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Secondly, The God of the O.T. IS the same God of the N.T. He chooses to continue to reveal His Will and plan for mankind by speaking to us through
his Word ,(the Holy Bible) and, through various other methods, as He chooses. In the O.T., God spoke mainly through His Prophets, Seers and Sages. Some of these ways were by visitation by God's messengers (angels), dreams, visions, the Word of Knowledge, the Word of Wisdom. He also chose to use Kings and other chosen leaders. When we read in the O.T for example, where David "consulted the Lord", this was accomplished by the use of two mysterious stones...The Urim and Thummim. God chooses to use means that continue to baffle the minds of mankind!
Thirdly, yes we should read and study the O.T. very thoroughly, as it is "the schoolmaster". The O.T. teaches the beginning of all things of Creation. It records the history of the development of man and of the world as we know it today. It records and explains the offering and giving of sacrifices...that of taking the life of an innocent, guiltless animal by the shedding of it's blood, as the Scriptures tell us that "the life is in the blood". it foreshadows the coming plan of salvation, when God in the personage of Jesus Christ, left the portals of heaven, was born into this world by a virgin, lived a sinless life on this earth for about 33-1/2 years before giving his life on the cross of Calvary, which was a substitutionary death on the behalf of mankind, so that we could be saved from our sins.
I hope this helps someone to put things in prospective.
God bless each of you.

DrJizzle

So what is the True Word of God? Is it necessarily the Bible and if so, is it in its entirety? Obviously there are things written that do not flush with todays society. I understand that many Christians will want to say that they live and die by the Word of God in its entirety, even tho, in reality, maybe they do not... but who of them would dare to go against it?

The Bible, whether originally inspired by the Mouth of God or not, has been passed thru the hands of imperfect man... leading to the imperfection of the Bible itself.

Who are we to know what has been changed and what has remained the same. True, the Bible tells us of what would happen to he who adds to, changes, or deletes from the Bible but it does not say that it will remain the same and what will change since its been written.

It is written that no sin is greater than another; however, many have allowed the consumption of pork or shellfish while they still damn the "greater" abomination of homosexuality.

So who says what stays and what goes? The church? The religion? Neither of these things matter... all that matters if faith.

Do I go to "church"? No... the "church" is as it always has been... corrupt. Do I claim a "religion"? No... "religion" is as it always has been... corrupt.

Do I believe in the same God as you? I know I do... even those who do not believe in "God". Unfortunately, the name "God" has been branded with so much negativity in the eyes of so many that most do not understand what the One True God is... even the most self-proclaimed devout Christians.

How many of these Christians would have stood up for Jesus before His crucification? How many would have bucked the "religions" taught to them and their ancestors at that time? I think we would all be shocked at the amount. Because just as today, many blindly follow the crowd and what they have been taught and fail to ask the question. Many would be the ones to praise Him when we was to be praised but be quick to taunt when the rest of the crowd turned on Him, as well.

ActionJackson

Amen to that Mr. Box. Unfortunately, some come here for the sole purpose of mocking God.

ActionJackson

[quote=DrJizzle]So what is the True Word of God? Is it necessarily the Bible and if so, is it in its entirety? Obviously there are things written that do not flush with todays society. I understand that many Christians will want to say that they live and die by the Word of God in its entirety, even tho, in reality, maybe they do not... but who of them would dare to go against it?

I don't personally know anyone who says that "they live and die by the Word of God but I know plenty who would say that they try to

The Bible, whether originally inspired by the Mouth of God or not, has been passed thru the hands of imperfect man... leading to the imperfection of the Bible itself.

Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." II Peter 1:20-21

Who are we to know what has been changed and what has remained the same.

Faith in a God who knows all and who loves His children enough to see to it that they received His Word in a truthful manner.

True, the Bible tells us of what would happen to he who adds to, changes, or deletes from the Bible but it does not say that it will remain the same and what will change since its been written.

"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." I have nearly 20 versions of the Bible and some of them have been changed. Those that have been changed are generally easy to spot if you study them.

It is written that no sin is greater than another; however, many have allowed the consumption of pork or shellfish while they still damn the "greater" abomination of homosexuality.

The sin of blasphemy of the Holy Ghost is an unforgiveable sin. That fact alone reveals that there are different levels of sin. Some sins (just like some of our current laws) required the death penalty while other sins required lesser punishments. But all men have sinned and have fallen short of the glory of God. And the wages of sin is death. Christ paid for that death for those who accept Him, love Him, and obey Him.

So who says what stays and what goes? The church? The religion? Neither of these things matter... all that matters if faith.

More than just faith but rather faith in Jesus Christ. There is a difference.

Do I go to "church"? No... the "church" is as it always has been... corrupt. Do I claim a "religion"? No... "religion" is as it always has been... corrupt.

So the church of DrJizzle is NOT corrupt?

Do I believe in the same God as you? I know I do... even those who do not believe in "God". Unfortunately, the name "God" has been branded with so much negativity in the eyes of so many that most do not understand what the One True God is... even the most self-proclaimed devout Christians.

True, God has been given a bad rap. No man has seen the face of God the Father. He is so hated that He has been removed from our public schools and institutions and there is more dismantling to come I'm sure. Those who mock Him certainly don't understand His power and the consequences of their foolish actions.

How many of these Christians would have stood up for Jesus before His crucification?

Even the beloved Apostle Peter had difficulty in this department. I'm sure that most Christians, including myself, would have been petrified to have witnessed the scene. It's humbling to think about it.

How many would have bucked the "religions" taught to them and their ancestors at that time?

Not to pat myself on the back but I have no trouble at all bucking the status quo. If you have read even half of my posts, you will know that I'm not a mainstreamer. I prefer to follow what I read in the Bible (King James version is my preference) that remains steadfast and true. Look at the myriad of denominations speckling the countryside. Religious tenets change almost daily but the Bible sitting on a million shelves collecting dust stays the same day after day after day. Twenty years ago, the Anglican Church would have been staunchly against the sin of homosexuality but look at what happened recently, a giant flip flop occurred. The Bible did not flip flop. It still says what it says about that sin just like it did 400 years ago and just like it did at the time of Moses.

ActionJackson

The same guy with the beard?? God is God whether He is in the beginning of the Bible or at the end of the Bible. Jesus Christ was God incarnate. It was necessary for God to take on the flesh in order to sacrifice Himself for our sins. "The guy with the beard" is meant, I assume, to mean Jesus Christ. Jesus was 100% God and 100% man. Hard to fathom but true nonetheless.