Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the ungodly..... This is a relationship question, but I chose to discuss this with other christians.

I am in a relationship with the father of my 2 year old son. we are not married yet, and we live together. I have always known the Lord, but I have recently renewed my fellowship in church, and have come back into the light. I was not in the light when he and I came together, moved in together and had our son.

God does not recognize relationships such as this. I know that he will give me the strenghth and the knowledge to make the right choice.

We are going to get married after I graduate from school. Should we move under seperate roofs until then. I am not trying at all to rationalize this, It is morally wrong, but we do love each other, we have been through some really rough times together, we are getting married, we have a son together, but he has no place to go.

I pray on this, but I would also like some words of comfort, encouragement and support from you all.

phildebenham

After you graduate from school? What schoo? High School? College? How old are you?

You have a child and you are living like you are married. Why, then, don't you get married and end the charade? What does school have to do with it? You are already living a married life, perhaps you should seal the deal.

Phil

phildebenham

Genesis 2:21-25

Chery

21 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; 22 and the rib which the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. 23 Then the man said, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." 24 Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh. 25 And the man and his wife were both naked, and were not ashamed.

I know about the rib, but no wedding ceremony or vows. I'ts all in the interpretation. My interpretation is that when you live together, you are man and wife - even without the papers or today's society.

to cleave: Main Entry: 1cleave
Pronunciation: 'klEv
Function: intransitive verb
Inflected Form(s): cleaved /'klEvd/; or clove /'klOv/; also clave /'klAv/; cleaved; cleav·ing
Etymology: Middle English clevien, from Old English clifian; akin to Old High German kleben to stick
: to adhere firmly and closely or loyally and unwaveringly

Don't mean to offen anyone, but it still is in the interpretation...

phildebenham

The "ceremony" for Adam and Eve was God's joining them together as husband and wife. It is here that God instituted marriage. Ceremonies have changed over the years and cultures, but marriage is the same. In "today's society" living together in a state of non-matrimony is accepted, by and large, by the community. It is not marriage, however. The couples doing so do not even consider themselves married. They consider themselves committed to one another, but not "married."

What is the reason for living together and not getting married? If you are truly committed to one another, why do you not make the societal and biblical commitment before men? I can see no logic, no scriptual reason, no spiritual reason, to not marry. I can see only self-righteousness, egotism, and a desire to illiminate ones guilt of sin by saying that sin is not sin if we really love each other. To take marriage lightly is to take the One who instituted lightly as well.

Phil Debenham

eawoodall

when a man and a woman are engaged to be married (she is 'his virgin'- she can only be 'his virgin' and not her father's virgin if she is engaged to him)
and she is not extremely young, but has needs, if he wills in his heart to fulfill those needs, they have not sinned let them marry.
read it for yourself I cor 7:36

God does recognize relationships such as this.

read the bible and do not listen to the words of ignorant men.

that should be some words of comfort, encouragement and support from you all.

eawoodall

phildebenham

I do not know if your line "read the bible and do not listen to the words of ignorant men" refers to me (since I posted just before you) or not, but I would agree with the statement (although I would leave out the word "ignorant.")

The verse you quote, 1 Cor. 7:36, reads in the NASB:

But if any man thinks that he is acting unbecomingly toward his virgin daughter, if she is past her youth, and if it must be so, let him do what he wshes, he does not sin; let her marry.

In the context of this passage we find that the Apostle Paul was giving instruction as to the disposal of children in marriage. He is saying that children should seek and follow the direction of their parents. Parents should also consult their childrens wishes and not dictate as they please without reason. This is the context of what Paul is saying and has very little to do with the query of this thread.

Not listening to "ignorant men" and reading the bible is very good advice, but we must be careful HOW we read the bible. To make proof texts out of passages of scripture is very dangerous indeed. Any text without the context is a proof text and often leads to error.

Be blessed,

Phil Debenham

Chery

There are so many religions and as many interpreters of their scriptures, and through my personal experience I have become warry of 'human' interpretations purely because some of those humans were greater sinners than I could have ever imagined! Take the Koran for instance. This has been interpreted to me by three individuals and each have 'read' it differently. My Jahovah Witness friends also teach me one way. Budism teaches another way. In other words, if one needs a religion for comfort and guidance, great!, as long as it is for the good of passing on love, caring and comort towards one another. So, blame me for interpreting things my way, -we all have the right of choice-. But be truthful, some commit crimes, go to confession, say a few Hail Mary's and feel forgiven???? Some abuse young boys in church, but continue to 'teach the word'. What about the victims of murder and abuse - who do they turn to? I also have been married, and have a wonderful child. But "God" did not protect me from being a victim of spouse abuse and rape. When I did seek advice and comfort from the church, all I was told was to do my wifely duty???? This is the reason I will not let another human being interpret the words of "God" to me any longer. I'm more comfortable in reading and seeking the guidance myself and need no other intervention. But I do not encourage anyone else to follow my beliefs and still have a right to express them, thank goodness. We all should believe in 'live and let live' no matter what. This might not belong here, and is long-winded, but "I had to say it". Thanks for listening and the best to all.

eawoodall

the problem you have is in the verse, not your belief about what you think it is talking about, but what it actually said.

it is impossible for this verse to be talking about the father's daughter as 'his virgin' since it said at the end of the verse for them to marry. a father cannot marry his daughter! 'his virgin' must refer to the fiance of the virgin, because the fiance is the only one who can marry the virgin, that is why they are engaged to begin with, hello? you are listening to ignorant men, because you believe a father can marry his own daughter, silly person.
arranged marriages were common, since women were only considered property, before christianity showed that they should be treated equally because they have equal worth with God. You need to read the bible not listen to what others tell you it said! because the ignorant are trying to lead you astray, and have obviously done so, since you think a father should marry his daughter. read the bible and the context is obvious.

Chery

OK, I just picked up on something else... Here I go again! Even after Christianity, women were NOT always considered equal, and in the teachings of Martin Luther, and a Christian Teaching in former Yugoslavia taught that women were inferior and that they were property and they had to walk behind the husband to show respect. Even in the early american lifestyles, while witch-hunting, women had absolutely no rights. Like I said before, and always will, I'm no expert any anything, but I am a curious type and still like to learn more inspite of my age and illness. I am open to any opinions others have, but am certainly not shy in expressing mine either. So again, please do not feel offended, but don't wear blinders either. All the best, no matter what your beliefs, Chery.

eawoodall

any single sin is counted as guilty of death before God.

that the catholic church has popes who bows down to whatever religion comes before them, instead of teaching their people the word of God, shows that the catholics at the highest levels are not christian. see:
http://www.cuttingedge.org/articles/rome.html
many are trying to keep you away from a true relationship with God. they are blind leading the blind. jehovah's witnesses believe that God already returned to earth several times, since they keep predicting it (since the 1800s), even though Jesus said no man knows the day or the hour. So they refuse to listen to Jesus, how much could they actually be witnessing about someone they refuse to believe? The koran was made from the words of an angel, just like the book the mormons follow, paul said if any angel or even we ourselves come to you and preach any other gospel let them be cursed. Revelation states that any add words to this book shall have the tribulations of this book added to them. writing additional books and claiming they are of God sounds like adding words to me. so neither of them follow the word of God.
Buddism believes that nothing really exists, and that people can make themselves perfect, and that becoming perfect is good enough, but God has said in the bible that having committed any sin your entire life is enough to not be perfect, because it is your entire life that is perfect or not. Only God can save because only God is infinite, and able to do the infinite. God planned all this before he made it. The 'whosoever will' can be saved, because they want to be saved, and are willing to agree with God (repent) that they need to be saved. logically only those who think they need salvation will ask for it. so catholic doctrine proves itself wrong- the pope many years ago declared himself perfect in healing, then he went for a walk wanting to use his new power, a person was on the ground, the pope command him to rise up and walk, the person tried to get up, and fell back down (because he was not physically healed), so the pope continued his walk. from this we learn the catholics deceive themselves willingly. they practice witchcraft, they claim in the mass they are making God come down and become blood and body again so they can eat and drink the "mass" (cana baal ism - priest of baal - condemned in the bible). they claim they are doing witchcraft for good (white witchcraft it is called), but the bible states rebellion is as witchcraft so they are in rebellion against God, so they are not following God. logically only those who refuse to submit can be raped, if you are willing yuo cannot logically be raped, it is called consent. you stayed in the marriage after you said no, and your husband forced himself on you? God will repay, vengence is mine sayeth the Lord. Do not thank some 'goodness' that you believe might exist someplace, Thank God. it is the job of man to thank God. The bible said there is no private interpretation of the word of God, that is a reason to not let other interprete it for you, not that you don't want them to, but that God said not to! to obey is better than sacrifice. God does not want any to suffer, but all be delivered. do not stay in an abusive relationship, if only because others care about you if you do not consider yourself worth saving, if there are children you need for their safety to leave! abusers of wives also often abuse the children! and rape is a form of abuse!
I do not believe in live and let live, if the safety of the children is in question because you don't want to leave an abusive husband, get the children out of the household before the husband gets bored with raping you, and looks around for someone else to rape. jesus said if a man offends you rebuke him.