Hypocrites and haters

Thanks Fred, I never doubted where you stood.

JoeT

Maggie 3: do you really agree with disrespecting the clergy when they wear a Roman collar? I knew we didn't often agree, but surly you don't agree with this? Have I misjudged you?

JoeT

JoeT777,
Very well done.
Thanks,
Fred

Please explain how "no other disciple could give the answer but Peter." That sure seems like a mighty grand assumption.

[quote]In plain language the meaning of the verse 18 becomes: because this was revealed to you by God, I will call you Rock and on this Rock I will build my church; hell won

Tweren

[quote=joet777;1950731]tweren

The OP title, "hypocrites and haters" are words that are often thrown at anyone who dares to say that the lifestyle of the one using these terms is wrong.

Telling someone he is wrong is not hatred.

It is only hypocritical if the person pointing out the sin is just as guilty andis making no effort to change his/her own behavour.

Pointing out someone's error or sin can very well be tough love.

Now a question:

Acts 19:1-2
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
(KJV)

That question is just as pertinent today as it was then.

How could the Apostles tell that believers had received the Holy Ghost?

Acts 2:4
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
(KJV)

Acts 10:45-47
45 And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
47 Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?
(KJV)

Acts 19:6
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
(KJV)

Acts 8:18-19
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
(KJV)

In this case something happened that was immediately obvious. If not speaking with tongues, then what?

No one will ever convince me that having a wafer placed on your tongue and being patted on the cheek equals being filled with the Holy Ghost.

The Church of the Book of Acts is plainly a Holy Ghost Church. When did that change into an institution founded on form and ceremony? This question should be seriously considered by all denominations.

Also ...I would like to note that Paul was the apostle to the Gentiles. AND....the mystery of the "church" wasn't revealed UNTIL Paul through Paul by the Lord Jesus Christ. During Christ ministry....poor ol Peter had NO clue of what was going to happen. He had no clue Christ had to die...he had no clue gentiles were going to be included. He didn't even know what the church really was. ( the bride of Christ) Even when he spoke to the Jews in the book of Acts and 3000 Jews were saved..he didn't understand the plan of salvation. Because it still had not been revealed! Which by the way is believing in the death burial and ressurection of the Lord and accepting it by faith. He was waiting for the Lord Jesus to return and set up His earthy Kingdom.

Give me the verse that the KINGDOM is the Roman Catholic church! I'd LOVE to see THAT in the word of GOD.

Dont get me wrong.. Peter is one of my favorite apostles but Paul had to "get on him" so to speak for going back to legalism.

There is NOTHING in the epistles to suggest that the little assemblies being started were Roman Catholic. QUITE the contrary.

One Church or one church in Unity is the first of four marks of the Church I.e. One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. What its not is a ordered military unit that marches in step with everybody expressing themselves the same, or holding identical understanding of Scripture. In fact, a Catholic is free to interpret the vast marjority of Scripture in any reasonable fashion he wants.

The True Church is marked with an internal and external spirit of unity. It is united with Christ and each of its members in its doctrine, reception of the sacraments, and obedience to its authority. It is not the duty of the Catholic to adhere religiously out of fear, but rather to conforming both reason and the heart to the will of God and thereby the will of the Church. Unity is adherence to an objective and absolute truth revealed by God.

We find this unity in Scripture and tradition. The following are scriptural evidence of Unity.

Speaking of His Church, the Saviour called it a kingdom, the kingdom of heaven, the kingdom of God (Matthew 13:24, 31, 33; Luke 13:18; John 18:36);
He compared it to a city the keys of which were entrusted to the Apostles (Matthew 5:14; 16:19),
to a sheepfold to which all His sheep must come and be united under one shepherd (John 10:7-17);
to a vine and its branches,
to a house built upon a rock against which not even the powers of hell should ever prevail (Matthew 16:18).
Moreover, the Saviour, just before He suffered, prayed for His disciples, for those who were afterwards to believe in Him for His Church that they might be and remain one as He and the Father are one (John 17:20-23); and
He had already warned them that "every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand" (Matthew 12:25).

Unity References by St. Paul.
Schism and disunion he brands as crimes to be classed with murder and debauchery, and declares that those guilty of "dissensions" and "sects" shall not obtain the kingdom of God (Galatians 5:20-21).
Hearing of the schisms among the Corinthians, he asked impatiently: "Is Christ divided? Was Paul then crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?" (1 Corinthians 1:13).
And in the same Epistle he describes the Church as one body with many members distinct among themselves, but one with Christ their head: "For in one Spirit we are all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Gentiles, whether bond or free" (1 Corinthians 12:13).
To show the intimate union of the members of the Church with the one God, he asks: "The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord? For we, being many, are one bread, one body, all that partake of one bread" (1 Corinthians 10:16-17).
Again in his Epistle to the Ephesians he teaches the same doctrine, and exhorts them to be "careful to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace", and he reminds them that there is but "one body and one spirit-one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all" (Ephesians 4:3-6).
Already, in one of his very first Epistles, he had warned the faithful of Galatia that if anybody, even an angel from heaven, should preach unto them any other Gospel than that which he had preached, "let him be anathema" (Galatians 1:8).
CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Unity (As a Mark of the Church)

JoeT

[quote=JoeT777;1950934]One Church or one church in Unity is the first of four marks of the Church I.e. One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic. What it