The scripture message, that men are cursed to trust man, would be a comparison to the commandment of having no other gods. To permit flesh/man to be the arm they reach to and follow, would be entering temptation.

Our Lord has promised to search the hearts of man. And in that search, Our Lord would see who man loves, what man treasures in life enough to make it the way of his life. What has man worked to achieve in his life.

I reference the scripture as truth of The Word, Prophecies Addressed to Jews

Jeremiah 17:5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

Jeremiah 17:10 I the LORD search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

How would you follow Christ Jesus? Why would you follow Christ? This thread could bring attention to the amazing truth of who Christ is in our daily life.

JoeT777

It would be great if you understood the quote presented as being Pope Benedict’s; but it's not the Pope's. However, it makes a strong case for Catholics to identify with the “mother” Church, living in communion, to view the Church as the Mystical Body of Christ. It’s a conversation by Deacon Keith A. Fournier written May 22, 2009 at Catholic Online. I’m afraid that somehow you mistook the Deacon’s words for the Pope’s. Atually, it appears you’ve taken quotes from two different articles. No foul, but in full fairness to Fournier the following is the full article not quoted. It should be read in context. (Forgive me for the long post – emphases are mine):

Learning to Love the Church as we Love the Lord
By Deacon Keith A. Fournier, 5/22/2009 Catholic Online (www.catholic.org)

The early fathers, Saints and Councils throughout the ages have all affirmed; to belong to Jesus is to belong to His Body.


To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood.

CHESAPEAKE, Va. (Catholic Online) - “Let us love the Lord our God; let us love His Church… Let us love Him as our Father and her as our mother” (St. Augustine) "No one can have God as his Father who does not have the Church as his Mother” (St. Cyprian) “For where the Church is, there the Spirit of God is also; and where the Spirit of God is, there the Church is, and all grace. And the Spirit is truth.” (St. Irenaeus of Lyons)

“There is no plan B” I said to my evangelical Protestant friend. “The Lord has not changed His mind. His work continues through His Body, His Church, of which we are all members through our Baptism”. This exchange came at the end of a lengthy conversation initiated by him. He was hungering for a deeper life, in his words, “in the Lord.”

A long time participant in the pro-life movement, he was first touched by the writings of Pope John Paul II and is a real fan of his successor, Pope Benedict XVI. He is moved by the Pro-Life witness of so many Catholics. He asked me some serious questions that day. I spoke to him of the theology of communion that is the heart of Catholic ecclesiology. I could see in his eyes the interest that will lead him even more deeply along the path I have witnessed so many others walk.

This encounter is happening frequently these days. I have spent much of my own public ministry in friendship and fellowship with evangelical Protestant Christians. There is a growing respect for the Catholic Church among many of our friends. For some, they have lived in an almost “Church-less” experience of Christianity; one that has so emphasized a “personal relationship” with Jesus (a vitally important truth) that often they have not experienced the “horizontal bar” of the Cross, the real implications of belonging to His Body in ecclesial communion.

However, they are not alone. How many Catholics understand the implications of their own Baptism? How many have experienced identification with the Church as a “mother”, or living in the Church as a “communion”? How many have come to perceive the Church as “Some – One” more than some-thing? Is this all supposed to only be the experience of the “mystics”, the talk of the Saints and Fathers, or, is it supposed to be the truly common experience of every Christian? I believe it is supposed to be the common experience of all Christians.

In Catholic theology we teach what the early fathers, Saints and Councils throughout the ages have all affirmed; to belong to Jesus is to belong to His Body. Our membership in the Church is a participation in the life of God; what the Apostle Peter referred to as a “participation in the Divine nature”. (2 Peter 1:4) We speak of our Christian friends in other Christian communities who have been validly baptized in accordance with a Trinitarian formula as already being in “imperfect communion” with the Church. This is why Catholics do not “re-baptize” a Christian from another community who comes into the Catholic Church. We speak of them as coming into “full communion” because they are already joined to the one Church in an “imperfect” or incomplete communion.

The headlines are filled with stories concerning the evil participated in by some members of the Catholic Church over a period of time in Ireland. The report was issued after a nine year investigation. It has left that Nation and the Irish Church heartsick. In the beginning of the sexual abuse crisis in the United States Pope John Paul II rightly referred to the evil at the root as part of the “mystery of iniquity.” So it is in Ireland. There is a purification of the Church underway. This passage of the Gospel comes to mind “… nothing is hidden that will not be revealed.” And, “…what was spoken in secret will be shouted from the housetops”. (Mark 4:22, Mt. 10:26) This is not the first time in 2,000 years that evil has found its way even into religious communities set apart for service. Then, like now, it was revealed.

Such times of purification often come right before a great time of genuine renewal. Could we be in the beginning of a great new missionary age of the Church? Along with the purification there is also springtime. For example, the “ecclesial movements” are flourishing and there is movement toward a dynamically orthodox Catholic faith and life among the lay faithful. Christians believe in a linear timeline of God’s plan in human history. This is all going somewhere; and that somewhere is into the fullness of Some One, Jesus Christ. In Him we are invited into the very life of the Trinitarian communion in the Church. Every man, woman and child on the face of the earth is invited. The Church is, as the early fathers used to say, the “world reconciled.”

Saul’s encounter with Jesus on the way to Damascus is instructive. Saul was a known persecutor of the early Church when he heard Jesus ask that probing question “Why do you persecute me?”: “On his ... journey, as he was nearing Damascus, a light from the sky suddenly flashed around him. He fell to the ground and heard a voice saying to him, "Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" He said, "Who are you, sir?" The reply came, "I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting.”” (Acts 9) Saul had never even met Jesus, at least during Our Lord’s “earthly” ministry. He persecuted his followers. Yet, so identified was Jesus with His Church that He asked that question of Saul. Saul’s response became the framework for his continuing conversion and apostolic mission. Jesus is still identified with His Church in our day.

The Church is not some “thing”, outside of us, which we try to “fix” or have our “issues” with. Through our Baptism the Church becomes our home, our mother, the place in which we now live our lives in Christ. That is not to say we do not sometimes have struggles with our mother. However, she always remains our mother. To perceive, receive and to live this reality requires a continuing and dynamic conversion. We are sons and daughters of the Church. In living our lives in her we carry forward in time the continuing redemptive mission of Jesus Christ who is the Head of His Body. In its treatment of this “mystery” of the Church, the Catechism of the Catholic Church states:

“845 To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son's Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is "the world reconciled." She is that bark which "in the full sail of the Lord's cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world." According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah's ark, which alone saves from the flood. [St. Augustine, Serm. 96, 7, 9: PL 38, 588; St. Ambrose, De virg. 18, 118: PL 16, 297B; cf. already 1 Pet 3:20-21] [30, 953, 1219]”

This Church is both human and divine; thus her members still sin. Sometimes evil enters and rots her from within. However, she is still the means through which we participate in the life of God. To her has been entrusted the Sacraments and the Word, the gift of a teaching office and the very means of salvation. The Church is not an optional “extra” that we add on to our lives, she is our life, because we live in Christ. From his wounded side she was birthed at the tree of Calvary, the altar of the new world. Through faith we are invited, daily, into this mystery and by grace we come to comprehend and live it.

Let us pray for the victims of the horrid events which occurred in Ireland. Let us pray for the leaders of the Church and the faithful of that land which has given the world so many great Christian leaders like Patrick. Let us continue to love the Church enough to stay faithful and be a part of her purification and renewal in this time of travail. Like I said to my evangelical protestant friend, there is no “Plan B.” We are called to love the Church as we love the Lord.

Deacon Keith Fournier asks that you join with us and help in this vital mission by sending this article to your family, friends, and neighbors and adding our link (www.catholic.org) to your own website, blog or social network. Let us broadcast, we are PROUD TO BE CATHOLIC!
http://www.catholic.org/internationa...d=33615&page=1

JoeT

Maggie 3

sndbay, I would like to add this, Gal. 2:19, "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God."----

When we trust in Jesus and win eternel place at God's side, we don't violate the law or somehow get around it. Jesus fulfilled the whole law, and by identifing with Him in His
death and resurrection, we do to. (Not by man made laws)

Gal.2:20
"I have bee crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I live in the flesh I live by faith".....

The secret to the Christian life is to allow Jesus Christ to live in and through you, by faith when you invite and allow the Hoiy Spirit to work in your life, you become a vital
representative of Christ.

Gal. 3:3 "Are you so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit, are you now being made perfect by the flesh?

The entire Christian experience is to be lived by faith, from beginning to end. We are
justified by grace though faith, we are sanctified by grace though faith, and we will be
glorified by grace though faith.

Gal. 3:13 "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree")

The law is a curse to us in that it condemns our sin and therefore condemns us.
Jesus, the sinless Son of God, accepted our rightful condemnation and the punishment
we deserved when He willing went to the cross.

We live by faith not by man made laws.

Blassings, Maggie 3

sndbay

I will respectfully acknowledge your reply with patiences. And redirect the facts by tolerance of good nature towards what was posted.

As Written concerning Pope Benedict, and the members within the body of Christ, known to be baptized into the Catholic Church...
Joe, you, instead of answering the questions, decided to posted some other online Catholic news release titled. (Learning to Love the Church as we Love the Lord )

I had addressed the one titled(Pope Benedict’s ‘Impelling Duty’: Rebuild the Full and Visible Unity of the Church )By Deacon Keith Fournier 10/24/2009

Subject as to why I implied Pope Benedict's and His views


No further discussion is needed unless you care to answer the questions I originally posted.

sndbay

Thank you Maggie, this is so true. We should boast of the Law of Faith, because the just shall live by faith. Those who walk in the Spirit, walk to follow Christ, and hear HIS Voice, do it all by ONE Faith.
(Gal 3:11 Romans 3:28 Romans 3:27)

That is the point of this entire thread. Man does not increase members of the church, or their faith. But have shown they will attempt to decease us.

1 Corinthians 3:7 So then neither is he that planteth any thing, neither he that watereth; but God that giveth the increase.



Man does not bring the revealed truth to our hearts, but can example a godly faith and love in conversation.

Luke 17:5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

All power was given unto Christ Jesus in heaven and earth. (Matthew 28:18) It is the Father in heaven that will quicken our mortal bodies and dwell in us (Romans 8:11)
We are to be all that we were created to be through the Spirit of Truth in Christ Jesus.

From the Jews being shown in deception from man as written in scripture teaching of (Jeremiah 17:5) and our Faith being foretold to trust in God (Jeremiah 17:7) because we will fall short if we follow man, and allow our heart an indication that we follow the ways of this earth rather then the will of God. (Jeremiaj 17:10)

Our Faith should rest in our Lord, and not in man. (Matthew 11:29)

And again from the scripture teaching offered in (1 Timothy 2:1 thr 3:13) that Fred mentioned about the church. Warning of causion in behavior, and how some turn away from truth, and overthrow Faith in One God to being a strange man following man.
The clear interpretation of strange man would be as scripture indicates as estranged with man. (Psalm 81:9)

We have but One Lord, One Faith, and One Baptism, and One God and Father..

1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus


~in Christ

Maggie 3

Thank you sndbay for sharing the truth and being here for us.
love maggie 3

JoeT777

I don’t understand, you cite several quotes and attribute them to the Pope; except the Pope didn’t make these statements, they were comments made by Deacon Keith A. Fournier.

In any event yes the Kingdom of God, the Catholic Church is made up of sinners; as is every church whether or not they wish to acknowledge it. Redemption is in Christ; thus being incorporated into the Mystical Body of Christ (The Catholic Church). As Deacon Keith A. Fournier said, “there is no plan ‘B’” And, as stated in Athanasius’ creed, “Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the Catholic Faith. Which Faith except everyone do keep whole and undefiled [orthodoxy], without doubt he shall perish everlastingly.” (Quicunque vult).

No you said “REFER Pope Benedict Quote:” One would expect what follows is a direct quote. It wasn’t. What was quoted was written by Deacon Keith A. Fournier. These were his opinions. While I agree with them, they don’t hold the same authority that a quote from the Pope would have. Furthermore you seemed to have quoted several lines from several different pieces written by Deacon Keith A. Fournier.

I’m proud that you have a high regard for your own patience and tolerance; but at least while enduring me please suffer us with truth.

JoeT

arcura

Joe,
Thanks for posting that.
We should also keep in mind that when we pray The Lord's Prayer we are asking "thy kingdom come"
When Jesus taught that to his apostles The Church had not yet been established so he was teaching them to pray for it to come along later than at that time.
Now we do have The Church, the mystical body of Christ, here on earth so that part of the prayer has been answered and continues to be so
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

sndbay

Then I would ask you why Peter spoke these words that have said that all nations that work in righteousness, and fear God are accepted of God. Would you not agree that those working righteousness are not sinners, and those that hold a godly fear in God's hand of fire would be those that are not doing evil?

Act 10:35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

The table that is prepared before all nations was Christ Jesus. His body and blood once and for all "Purged our sins", and set us free from the bondage of sin. Peter said, God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean. Why then would any church call people unclean when they have confess belief in Christ the begotten Son of God and acknowledge all He has given us?

Psalms 23:3 He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.

1 Peter 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

The new covenant was establish by the body and blood of Christ. God's promise which is offered in One Faith. We are sanctified through Christ. We acknowledge that being sanctified by the body and blood of Christ, is by the hand of God who has begotten again through Christ to be in likeness of the seventh day in which God sanctified as Holy.

Whether we trust in God and walk in His light of rightoeusness depends on the individual's willingness to dead each day daily by not falling to temptation that surround them. Surrendering to do the will of God, and deny ourselves. The Holy Spirit is of righteousness within those sanctified. That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Hebrews 10:10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

John 17:17-18-19 Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.As thou hast sent me into the world, even so have I also sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify myself, that they also might be sanctified through the truth.

Sinner Beware!
Hebrew 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins

Hebrew 10:38-39 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

If we say we need not follow, if we say we have no need of the forgiveness, then we decease ourselves. REPENT and confess our sins. Sin no more!

1 John 1:6-7-8-9 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son acleanseth us from all sin If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


There is only One Faith, One Lord, One Baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. I speak no lies but what is written in the volume of the Book.


Are you waxed cold and unable to recognize my love for Christ Jesus, and His words of truth which is what I confess in One Faith?

John 10:27-28 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

2 Timothy 3:12-13-14-15 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

3:16-17 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

No sinner can say they walks in the light of God

1 John 1:6-7 If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

~in Christ

sndbay

Matthew 6:10 Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

Luke 11:10 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Romans 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.

Hear His Voice, in the volume of the Book

~in the Spirit

gromitt82

I try to follow Jesus for a VERY SIMPLE REASON. JESUS IS GOD INCARNATE AND HE CAME TO EARTH TO SAVE MANKIND AND SHOW US WHAT WE HAVE TO DO TO REACH OUR SALVATION.

His message, therefore, is tne final one and as such it supercedes and replaces whatever other messages we can find in the O.T.

Gromitt82