Hi all:

I found an interesting letter while stumbling online, and I wanted to hear other people's thoughts about it. Here is the link:

Why Can't I Own a Canadian?

I know many people will pick and choose out of the old testament, that some things are still relevant today and others are not. Jesus came to break down the barriers of the Law and the requirements it included.

What do you think? Is it alright to say that homosexuals are wrong because of that verse in Leviticus, or not? I feel like we have to take every other law with it too.

I'm kind of confused by the whole topic. Is the old testament relavent? Or is it now abolished because of Jesus?

Let's discuss it!

galveston

The LAW is abolished in Jesus Christ.

However, if you read the New Testament and see what Jesus taught, and what the Apostles taught, you will find a stricter code than under the OT law.

The OT law only judges actions, whereas NT teaching also judges motives

You mention homosexuals. Read Paul's letter to the Romans, first chapter. He is quite clear on this subject. That is not the only place in the NT either.

Under OT law, murder is a crime. In the NT, hatred is declared to be the same as murder, and lust is the same as adultery.

paraclete

The Old Testament is relevant as an example, but the Law as set out in the Old Testament is not relevant to Christians. Christians place their faith in Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice and have not need to strive to fulfill the Law. Our offense against the Law is covered by the blood of Jesus where under the Law it could only be covered by the blood of dead animals

The article you refer to is mockery, even though there may be some truth in the questions, The film clip is much better than the article but the Law after all was about obedience and in many instances sound public health and common sense in a community with no infurstructure and no long term social compact. They needed to be taught from basics. What they ultimately did was turn this into a set of regulations that noone could follow in full and certainly not to the spirit.

It still comes down to obedience today, if you walk according to the Spirit you will not do these things even though you don't need to make a conscious effort to know and understand the Law.

So when someone tells you they can be homosexual and a Christian too, don't tell them they are condemned, tell them they need to be born again.

The New Testament tells us that those who try to fulfill any part of the Law fro righteousness sake must fulfill it all for they are trying to do the job Christ has already completed. It is a finished work

WiseOldUnicorn

The same part of Leviticus that condemns homosexuality also condemns wearing clothes made of more than one kind of fabric. I've never understood why so many Christians think homosexuality is an abomination, but yet no one ever tells me I'm going to hell because my shirt is 60% cotton and 40% polyester. Paul and the Apostles? Is what they say really to be ranked on the same level as what Jesus said? Personally, I would think not.

Jesus did come to break down the Law and establish a new one, you're right about that. But a lot of Christians don't seem to understand what the new law is. Exhibit A: look at how many Christians act hatefully towards homosexuals--having hateful attitudes towards them in private, if nothing else--even though Jesus explicitly tells us that we're supposed to love our neighbor as ourselves. He doesn't say "love everybody, oh, except for people that aren't Christians, and terrorists, and those yucky homosexuals." He just says to love everybody. End of story. And that's the only law we have to worry about following, not OT law. (Which isn't to say that the OT isn't still relevant, for history if nothing else, but it's not something we should be looking to as the final definitive guide on how to live our lives.)

* Disclaimer: I am not a Biblical expert and everything I just said could be complete BS. I'm just stating it the way I see it. But I could be wrong (and often am).

TUT317

The type of laws referred to in "Why Can't I Own a Canadian" come from what could be called, "Early Christian Ethics" ( for the want of a better name). The emphasize the importance of The Ten Commandments and ritualistic practices similar to the example you have given. These teachings, practices and laws were seen as not negotiable because they come directly from God.

The next period can be roughly be regarded as,"Later Christian Ethics" ( again for the want of a better name). This period can be seen as a time when Christian ethics came into contact with such things as Neo-Platonism, Protestant Reformation and a great deal of other conflict between church and the state. (A lot of history in that paragraph)

Unlike the, "Early Christian Ethics" period religion became the subject matter of philosophy and therefore was the subject of wide ranging debate in matters of theology, ethics, the relationship between the church and the state.

Today we live in a secular state and people can choose what ever religious practices we like. But this is provided these practices don't go against secular law. For example, it is against the law to burn something at the alter if there is a total fire ban in place. You cannot own a Canadian because slavery is against secular law.

Today scientific based ethics is competing with religious ethics which further complicates the problem. Christian ethics could be summarized as God giving us certain rules of moral conduct and we should do our best to follow these rules. However, in the reality of the modern world this is not easy especially when different religious groups, not so much disagree on religious theory, but disagree as to the application of general ethical principles in day to day life.

galveston

The prohibition of wearing of mixed materials, sowing mixed seed, allowing cattle to mix breeds; these were all to teach Israel the concept of purity, especially racial purity. That was very important, as it was through this family that Messiah was to come. God never gives rules without reason.

As to love, Biblically speaking, love is ACTION not FEELING.

Love your enemies has nothing to do with feeling. It means we are to treat that enemy as well as he will allow us to. Feed him if he is hungry, etc.

It also means that if we have this kind of love, we will tell people the truth, even if they don't want to hear it, because their eternal destiny may depend on whether we do so or not.

sndbay

We can't forget what scripture says about walking in the spirit. This would be an example for us being able and willing to follow Christ.

Romans 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

Remember the law is the school master that brings people to Christ.. It does not just disappear once you are born again in Christ.

Romans 2:12-13 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


The History for the Jews to acknowledge and realize was the promises God spoke.

Jeremiah 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Those who are circumcised of the heart (Jere 4:4) to the Lord.

Romans 2:26 Therefore if the uncircumcision keep the righteousness of the law, shall not his uncircumcision be counted for circumcision?

Deu 30:6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.

~in Christ

Edit:

Think of this, righteousness does not come by the law. But righteousness did come through Christ Jesus. We can live in newness of life through Christ and there is no other way. We follow Christ by our faith in HIM, and we do works of the law because of our faith in following Him. That is the Law of Faith that we boast. Hear HIS Voice and follow.

arcura

Jesus told s rt follow he law and prayed that we would.
It also means to understand it as irt was given way back hen under the conditions and culture of that time.
So I do believe that we should do as Jesus instruct and keep in mind that He is the fulfillment of the law and what that means.
It is a big part of His salvtion mission.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

sndbay

As did Jesus and John the Baptist, both suffered to fulfil righteousness in baptism.

We do follow Christ in baptism.

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Note:

Matthew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

The royal law according to scripture is LOVE

gromitt82

In my humble opinion - and I can naturally be wrong - I, as a RCC consider the O.T. as part of the Scriptures and therefore important. However, the N.T. , the basic part of it are the Gospels, or Jesus' Word - overwites the O.T.

The O.T. contains a number of points and subjects that are to be taken considering the age when they were written and whom they were written for. The ignorant darkness that in multitude of aspects surrounded mankind 2 or 3000 years before Christ has to be taken into account when we read the O.T. books.

On the other hand, in the N.T. Jesus leaves with us a very simple set of rules to abide by and He clearly points out that to follow them is to follow the path leaving to His Kingdom.

In the O.T. we can find numerous fragments where violence is sort of preached, like the phrase "eye for an eye" (Leviticus 24:19–21, Exodus 21:22–25, and Deuteronomy 19:21).

In the N.T. Jesus is preaching to love and forgive our enemies, as He did when dying in the Cross.

I would say that this message reflects more -as far as I'm concerned- what GOD is like and why GOD sent ITS SON TO SAVE US.

Don't you think so?

Gromitt82