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As stated in my previous post, manipulation and coercion are forms of forcing propaganda. I'm not saying everyone does it, i'm jsut saying that there are some. It talks about man-made-doctrine being taught. This is the indoctination/brainwashing i'm talking about. i'm not saying the Witnesses, catholics, baptists, mormons, prodistants or any one else does this, i simply say that it does happen.
In reply to Morganite's request of a specific example here's this: This nameless church i referred and the end of each year will announce who has not donated money too the church, and the people are asked (on the spot) to explain themselves. This sounds pretty stupid to us, but you need to understand the culture of the Philippines. I'm fluent in their language and am extremely familiar with their culture, and this manipulates them and causes them to give money they don't have to the church. If they don't pay up they are excommunicated. This church was founded in the Philippines, and has very few congregations outside their country. In the mind of a Filipino, to admit your poor is beyond utter humiliation, and they would do anything to not leave that impression, like give away the little money they need to their church. Further if a member misses one week of church they are visited by their evangelical leader. Whichis good. Except that if they miss continuesly they ask for even more money, and will kick them out of the church.
Sorry, but what you are speaking of is most definitely not a Christ-centered church. A Christ-centered church has the love of Christ within it and follows the teachings of Christ. Of what you speak is most certainly not one of His teachings.
You are speaking of a forceable-business trying to manuever as a church.
Everyone should immediately leave and never darken its doors again. Find a church that teaches and preachers the Word of God.
In reply to Morganite's request of a specific example here's this: This nameless church i referred and the end of each year will announce who has not donated money too the church, and the people are asked (on the spot) to explain themselves. This sounds pretty stupid to us, but you need to understand the culture of the Philippines. I'm fluent in their language and am extremely familiar with their culture, and this manipulates them and causes them to give money they don't have to the church. If they don't pay up they are excommunicated. This church was founded in the Philippines, and has very few congregations outside their country. In the mind of a Filipino, to admit your poor is beyond utter humiliation, and they would do anything to not leave that impression, like give away the little money they need to their church. Further if a member misses one week of church they are visited by their evangelical leader. Whichis good. Except that if they miss continuesly they ask for even more money, and will kick them out of the church.
You could be telling the truth, but unless you are specific and give the name and location of the church, how can anyone find out for themselves?
Why are you reluctant to name a church that you criticize? Are you the pastor?
The Holy Word of God approves, nay, demands, of believers that they "all believe the same thing on all doctrine" Who can find fault with that?
MORGANITE
I can!! I resent ANYONE or ANYTHING telling me how to think or what to believe.
There are some of us who are not "sheep" and don't feel the need to be "led" by a "shepherd". This doesn't make us "bad people" or "evil". This just makes us poor followers.
We make our own minds up as to what or what not to believe without any outside help from religion, a preacher, or a televangelist that wants your money to guarantee your salvation .
Hell is real!!!
MaggieB
You're right Maggie and I found it right here on earth in my first marrage.
Sometimes it does seem to be hell here on earth, sorry that you went through a time such as this. However, I have to disagree with your words
concerning paying preachers, TV evangelists, etc for salvation. That is an untrue statement. You pay no one for salvation, it is a free gift from God and available to all. You make a choice of accepting the GIFT or rejecting it. Our salvation was paid in full by the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Our sins were nailed to the cross with Jesus. The battle has been won, the victory is ours for the taking, no strings attached, no money involved.
In Acts chapter 16 we read that when Paul and Silas were in jail the jailer asked them "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" (Receive salvation). They replied, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household." Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house and they were filled with joy, he and his whole house, because they had come to believe (chosen to believe) in God.
God is the same yesterday, today and forever and is waiting for all to come to Him.
Why is it that Jehovah's Witness' all believe the same thing on all doctrine?
Because JWs honestly try to obey and apply what the Bible teaches. And since the Bible truly is God's word, the resulting unity of thought and action should not be a surprise. In fact, I would argue that a lack of unity is a red flag for any group that professes Christianity and adherence to the Bible.
As long as I live, I'll never understand the criticism that JWs are just too unified...
Because JWs honestly try to obey and apply what the Bible teaches. And since the Bible truly is God's word, the resulting unity of thought and action should not be a surprise. In fact, I would argue that a lack of unity is a red flag for any group that professes Christianity and adherence to the Bible.
As long as I live, I'll never understand the criticism that JWs are just too unified...
Chris
I am not speaking of what the bible teaches, Chris, I am speaking of what the leaders teach. If the leadership of the WTBTS tells you that Jesus will return in the flesh on January 30th, 2007 you will all believe it. When that day comes and goes and the WTBTS tells you the date is now February 3, 2010, you will believe that. Why???? Why do JW's believe everything their leaders say without so much as a question as to whether they just might be wrong? Let me give you a good example. The WTBTS says that God's name is Jehovah. However the tetragammaton, transliterated into english sounds, is YHWH, not JHVH. JHVH is the German pronunciation to which the vowels from adonai were added to created the name Jehovah. So, why, now that you know the truth, will you continue to call God Jehovah? Not because it is His name, but because the WTBTS says it is. JW's won't question it because to do so would be to go against the WTBTS, and that is a big no-no. Those who do question end up leaving the faith.
JW's won't question it because to do so would be to go against the WTBTS, and that is a big no-no. Those who do question end up leaving the faith.
It's a good thing the apostles didn't feel as you do, that loyalty and obedience are shortcomings. Imagine the damage such a permissive attitude would have caused the early Christian congregations. And as Morganite rightly pointed out, Paul's letters are filled with admonition to avoid divisive opinions and disunity.
But eventually most did compromise their unity to follow their own ways, and the great apostasy and falling away foretold in the Bible and the absurd number of sects and denominations we see in Christendom today are the result. (1 Tim. 4:1; 2 Thess. 2:3)
Woe to them! They have taken the way of Cain; they have rushed for profit into Balaam's error; they have been destroyed in Korah's rebellion. -- Jude 1:11
Study and learn from the example of Korah. (See Numbers 16 and 26)
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