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Home > Society & Culture > Religion > Christianity   »   Follow-up to "Religion must be destroyed"

 
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Old Oct 15, 2007, 08:40 AM
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Follow-up to "Religion must be destroyed"

Found this interesting blog today. It addresses the same subject we discussed earlier.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
David Burchett
Author and Speaker

Is "Christian Intellect" an Oxymoron?

Warning: The following post may (or, sadly, may not) contain humor. This blog was produced in a program where irony and satire are processed. May contain sarcasm fragments. If you are allergic to humor or attempts at humor please avoid this product.

Richard Dawkins is an atheist who loves to denigrate Christian intellect. In fact, for Dawkins the very phrase “Christian intellect” would be oxymoronic. When asked what the main difference between believers and atheists was, Dawkins had a quick answer: "Well, we're bright."
I took that as I hope Dawkins intended it. I laughed. Because he surely does not believe that every single Christian in the world is dim-witted. Then again, perhaps he does. If Richard Dawkins genuinely believes that Christians are that intellectually challenged perhaps he should start a business geared toward people of faith. When we struggle with the difficult tasks of life like getting dressed or balancing a checkbook we could simply go to www.we-are-bright.com (not an actual site for any believers reading this) and get a real atheist to help us figure it out. Sample weblog…
Believer: “Help me bright people. I am locked out of my convertible, it is starting to rain, and the top is down!”
Bright Person: “No problem, still learning to walk upright religious person. Just reach inside and unlock the door.”
Believer: “Oh thank you, smarter than me person!”

Dawkins is not alone in believing that the average Christian is a nugget or two short of a Happy Meal. Here are some titles from blogs and websites (my comments in italics). Many I could not use because this is a family blog.

Stupid Christians index – Didn’t make the list…note to self…try harder
GOP operatives exploiting stupid Christians…That is so not true. Isn’t that right, Mr.Rove?
All Christians are idiots – Maybe today Diogenes the Cynic would be carrying his lantern looking for one smart Christian instead of an honest man.
Amazingly Stupid Christians – Premiering next week on Fox!
I am sick and tired of stupid Christians – Me too.
Stupid Christians are ruining the world – Don’t look now but they are getting lots of help.
101 Reasons to Hate Those Stupid Christians – My favorite. This guy is calling Christians stupid and he has 12 reasons listed on a website entitled 101 reasons. Hmmm. Perhaps he could also get some help from the folks at we-are-bright.com.

I do have one observation from visiting these websites. Get spell check! I began to think the cows from the Chick-fil-a billboards were typing these blogs and posts. Not a lot of communication is going on at most of these sites. Here is a typical exchange:
“You are a stupid (bleeping) Christian!”
“Well, I may be stupid but at least I am not going to hell.”

That is some helpful interchange going on there! That passes for debate at most of these sites.

CNSNews.com reported that some of the leading spokespeople for atheism recently gathered at a convention in Northern Virginia. The consensus was that science must ultimately destroy organized religion.

I hope they mean intellectually.

In his speech, Richard Dawkins portrayed a black-and-white intellectual battle between atheism and religion. He denounced the "preposterous nonsense of religious customs" and compared religion to racism. He also gave no quarter to moderate or liberal believers, asserting that "so-called moderate Christianity is simply an evasion."
"If you've been taught to believe it by moderates, what's to stop you from taking the next step and blowing yourself up?" he said.

Perhaps one overpowering reason is that no where in the teachings of Jesus does it ever say that I should blow myself up. Exactly when or where was the most recent Christian who blew themselves up for their faith? Oddly enough, author Sam Harris was a voice of moderation.

While Harris said he believed science must ultimately destroy religion, he also discussed spirituality and mysticism and called for a greater understanding of allegedly spiritual phenomena. He also cautioned the audience against lumping all religions together.
"The refrain that all religions have their extremists is bull-t," Harris said. "All religions do not have their extremists. Some religions have never had their extremists."

While the audience gave Dawkins a standing ovation, Harris received only polite applause. One questioner later declared herself "very disappointed" in Harris's talk.

Here is a heartbreaking but predictable sidebar to the story reported at Crosswalk.com.
Many of the attendees seemed to have developed an aversion to religion from conservative, Protestant Christians. Several of the atheists Cybercast News Service spoke to complained of living under fundamentalist parents who frowned upon any questioning of the Bible or any activity condemned in Scripture.
"It wasn't easy [telling my parents I was an atheist]," one said. "I still haven't entirely told them. I just say I'm a humanist, which they don't seem to mind."

That makes me sad but I am not surprised. Much of my book “When Bad Christians Happen to Good People” deals with legalism and the failure of many in the church to communicate grace and love. That type of legalistic religion has done immeasurable damage. Jesus was the harshest critic of “religious” hypocrites.

Not much has really changed in the past couple of hundred years. The great preacher Charles M. Spurgeon wrote in the 19th century that “if you follow Christ, all the hounds of the world will yelp at your heels. Count on this, if you live for Jesus Christ, the world will not speak well of you.”

I wish that was not true. I wish I could discuss my faith with civility and grace with everyone. I wish that everyone would view my attempts and desire to communicate my faith as genuine and caring. I am saddened that a group that prides itself on reason is so prone to use ugly stereotypes and ridiculous generalizations. But throwing me under the moron bus won’t change my hope of communicating the message of Christ to you. Sadly, hateful responses have been going on for some time.

So don't be surprised, friends, when the world hates you. This has been going on a long time. The way we know we've been transferred from death to life is that we love our brothers and sisters. (I John 3, The Message)

To those who disagree with my beliefs I can only say that I hope you don’t hate me. I do not hate you. I hope you don’t think I am stupid. I certainly don’t think you are stupid (at least until I get to know you and you demonstrate that fact beyond a shadow of a doubt). I do think some of you have a little anger issue but that is another topic. Perhaps if I can implement the words of James I can enter into civil dialogue with some of you.

Real wisdom, God's wisdom, begins with a holy life and is characterized by getting along with others. It is gentle and reasonable, overflowing with mercy and blessings, not hot one day and cold the next, not two-faced. You can develop a healthy, robust community that lives right with God and enjoy its results only if you do the hard work of getting along with each other, treating each other with dignity and honor. (James 3 – The Message)

That seems like a good place to start for me and my not so bright friends.

Dave Burchett is an Emmy Award winning television sports director, author, and Christian speaker. He is the author of When Bad Christians Happen to Good People and Bring'em Back Alive: A Healing Plan for those Wounded by the Church.

 
     

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Old Oct 16, 2007, 12:58 PM   #31  
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I think we're splitting too many hairs here.

Why don't we stick to the original issue and quit attacking each other?

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tatertot disagrees: you obviously dont know the meaning of this expression because that does not even apply..
 
 
     
 
 
Old Oct 16, 2007, 01:17 PM   #32  
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My my, tatertot... you are one angry Christian.

You also never answered my question, which I can only assume is because of one of two reasons; (1) You do NOT believe in Zeus, which means you've proven your first argument is worthless; or (2) By sticking to your original argument you would be forced to say you believe their COULD be a god named Zeus; which is against your Christian faith. So which is it? Or is there a third option I missed? Or are you going to continue being an angry Christian who is intent on insulting others and getting off topic?

Just wondering....
 
 
     
 
 
Old Oct 16, 2007, 01:19 PM   #33  
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"tatertot disagrees: you obviously dont know the meaning of this expression because that does not even apply.."

Personal attacks seem to be your preferred method.

I guess I'm about done with you.
 
 
     
 
 
Old Oct 16, 2007, 01:21 PM   #34  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatertot
lol ... aaaahhhh yah! you people just crack me up! "athiest couldnt care less about religion and dont give it a though" ??????...lol YOU obviously you must not be an athiest then coz you sure do spend ALOT of time on it. Not only do you give religion "a thought" you actually go to the lengths of actually signing up for a web site, spend all day on your computer discussing it and you are on eeeevery ffffrigging discusion there is about religion i have seen on this site. lol r you for real?? So your condescending remarks a just damn funny cos that just make you sound so confused.
It takes more Faith to believe that there is no God than to believe there is one so by that token i would say; You are the most religious, close minded person i have encounter in my whole life and YOU are the one who has been trying to shove your baseless Athiestic Religious beliefs on everyone. So do me a favor and believe what you believe and i will believe what i want to believe. Coz really, i couldnt give a rat's as* what you believe in and i dont think any other Christain does either because i have not seen anyone on this site "forcing" you to believe in GOD. So take your OWN advice and dont stop forcing your religion on other people...
I hope you read the end of the op's link. Because love is what should characterize a Christian.

I don't believe anyone comes to Christ from an intellectual / reasoned perspective, so you can't argue another into believing - I've tried also. I leave it to God's will.

I say this because it takes faith and that is more a 'heart' and being thing rather than a cerebral thing. It does not mean that a Chritian is 'dumb' or a 'moron' etc...

For me it means taking all the evidence that we humans and science have and coming to your own conclusion.





Grace and Peace

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tatertot agrees: i agree fully!!!
 
 
     
 
 
Old Oct 16, 2007, 01:21 PM   #35  
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**Cough cough** TROLL! **Cough cough**

It might be time to use than handy "block" feature...
 
 
     
 
 
Old Oct 16, 2007, 01:31 PM   #36  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jillianleab
My my, tatertot... you are one angry Christian.

You also never answered my question, which I can only assume is because of one of two reasons; (1) You do NOT believe in Zeus, which means you've proven your first argument is worthless; or (2) By sticking to your original argument you would be forced to say you believe their COULD be a god named Zeus; which is against your Christian faith. So which is it? Or is there a third option I missed? Or are you going to continue being an angry Christian who is intent on insulting others and getting off topic?

Just wondering....
Oh my bad i totally missed your question, jilly i did not see it. but yes i will answer your question: no i do not not believe in Zeus reason being i dont know if he exists. can i say he does not exist? No certainly not because like i said in my argument unless i have all absolute knowlege of everything that is in the universe, then i can not make an absolute statement that Zeus does not exist. So maybe he deos exists like i told your home boy..lol needkarma Zeus maybe chilling with tooth fairy on saturn for all i know.. does that answer your question.
 
 
     
 
 
Old Oct 16, 2007, 01:40 PM   #37  
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I also vote for troll Jillean.
 
 
     
 
 
Old Oct 16, 2007, 01:59 PM   #38  
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Your argument still violates basic logic. Look at your first sentence:

Quote:
For you to make such an absolute statement such as "God does not exist" you have to be all knowing
You contend one cannot make an absolute statement (of any kind) unless they are all-knowing. Yet you say god exists, right? How can you make such an absolute statement unless you are all knowing? So I propose your initial statement, "one cannot make an absolute statement unless they are all knowing" is a false statement. If, by chance, you do not personally believe beyond all doubt (the Christian) god exists, then you are not a Christian, and this entire argument is moot. But I'm assuming you consider yourself a Christian.

Do a google search for "The square of oppositions"; your statement is a "E" statement, and it is FALSE; therefore, my statement, "one can make an absolute statement without being all knowing" is the "A" statement - it must be true.

According to your logic, no one can ever assert an absolute, because none of us are all-knowing. You cannot deny the existence of Zeus, or the invisible, odorless, tasteless, silent pink unicorn which follows your every move. In the same token, you cannot CONFIRM the existence of anything - because you are not all-knowing.

There's also a violation in logic of god being both omnipotent and omniscient, but I pointed that out in another thread.

Beyond all of that, by saying you do not believe in Zeus because you don't know for sure if he exists indicates you acknowledge the POSSIBILITY he can exist. So you admit there is the possibility another god exists. That violates your theology. Bad Christian, BAD!

So, are you a bad Christian who acknowledges there could be other gods, or have you made a flawed logical argument?
 
 
     
 
 
Old Oct 16, 2007, 02:08 PM   #39  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickJ
Dawkins is in a minute minority of non-Christians and I"m sure he knows it.
Actually christians are in the minority. There are more people of no religion or other religions than there are christians.

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kindj agrees: I'm not sure, but I think he meant that Dawkins doesn't speak for many non-believers. Could be wrong, though.
 
 
     
 
 
Old Oct 16, 2007, 02:19 PM   #40  
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[quote=inthebox]I hope you read the end of the op's link. Because love is what should characterize a Christian.

I don't believe anyone comes to Christ from an intellectual / reasoned perspective, so you can't argue another into believing - I've tried also. I leave it to God's will.

I say this because it takes faith and that is more a 'heart' and being thing rather than a cerebral thing. It does not mean that a Chritian is 'dumb' or a 'moron' etc...

For me it means taking all the evidence that we humans and science have and coming to your own conclusion.

Inthebox. I agree with you 100%. It is through FAITH that we believe in Christ. I am a born again christain and Christ has saved me from literary death and i have had personal encounter with him that has made him real to me and that is why i worship him. I Was just wanting to point out to these so called "athiests" that what they believe in is also a religios belief because it is not scientific fact. Since the ahtiests on this sight have an air of superiority because they equate atheism to interlect which is bolony. i just wanted to prove that even a so called "christian dummy" can also interlectually argue against their religious beliefs. I know it is a waist of time to argue with people about God because until they soften thier hearts to let Him is reaveal Himself to them throught the holy sprit it is just dead ended. But i am just trying to make a point because their condescending remarks about "religious people" are quite ironic..lol because they are just as religious as any other religion.

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kindj agrees: I might have read you wrong earlier. If so, apologies.
 
 
     


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